The CLARA Method of De-Escalation • Hacker News Board

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#31

Post by codingdave » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 12:56 PM UTC

ideonexus wrote: post #3

This technique is extremely powerful in parenting. These are exactly the steps you take to reason with a toddler. Before anything else you have to get them out of their temper ta tantrum and articulating why they are angry. Then you segwey from listening to dialog.

I'd say that is more valuable in the post-toddler stage. Toddlers test boundaries to see what works - and using this against a 3 year old throwing a tantrum is showing them that tantrums work to initiate a dialogue, which is not the parenting goal you are trying to reach at that stage. Once they are past the tantrum stage, absolutely this becomes a great way to interact.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#32

Post by mnw21cam » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

sn41 wrote: post #27

chrisseaton wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand - do you think it's wrong to leave a critical review? Why should be stop himself leaving them if the product was bad? And whatever difficulties caused a product to be bad are irrelevant in a review of the product. People just want to know if it's bad or not.

The tone matters, I think. Think of how teachers leave a critical review of an assignment, versus the rants you see online. Both are often unpalatable, but the scale of the first kind often seems justified. Often one feels that one aspect of the product underperformed, while the others were on target, but the reviewers fly off the handle.

Is the review for the benefit of the manufacturer in order to improve the product, or for the benefit of prospective purchasers, to inform them of the quality of the thing they are considering?

Whether a review should be constructive depends on which of these it is.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#33

Post by petercooper » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:01 PM UTC

For the record, the original, descriptive and not next-to-useless title: "How to talk to angry people: the CLARA method of de-escalation".

HN guidelines say: "please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait." Maybe it's time to add "or if it's vague and non-descriptive"?

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#34

Post by HenryBemis » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

petercooper wrote: post #33

For the record, the original, descriptive and not next-to-useless title: "How to talk to angry people: the CLARA method of de-escalation". HN guidelines say: "please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait." Maybe it's time to add "or if it's vague and non-descriptive" ?

I liked soooo much more the previous title. The new one removes value of the article.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#35

Post by amelius » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #30

amelius wrote: post #23

What also gets me angry is if they leave no way for me to get back in contact with the same support-person after chatting with them.

"Can I have your name [again]?" "Could you please transfer me to [name] as they were helping me out previously with this issue?"

That's difficult to ask when you are kicked out of the session with a "have a nice day, please rate this conversation". Come on, just give me a link to click on or an email address.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#36

Post by Joeboy » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:12 PM UTC

arkades wrote: post #16

stabbles wrote: post #10

Coincidentally on the frontpage together with the rant of Linus Torvalds

I never got the impression that DE-escalation was Linus’ goal.

Isn't it? If you're the unchallenged dictator of a project, it seems to me that saying "I will brook no more of this nonsense" is a better de-escalation strategy than inviting further discussion.

Edit: I hope my downvoter understands the irony in their actions.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#37

Post by pjc50 » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

dannyw wrote: post #30

amelius wrote: post #23

What also gets me angry is if they leave no way for me to get back in contact with the same support-person after chatting with them.

"Can I have your name [again]?" "Could you please transfer me to [name] as they were helping me out previously with this issue?"

At this point you discover that everyone in the call centre is called "Dave" for professional purposes.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#38

Post by HenryBemis » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

wallflower wrote: post #6

When I did phone technical support for a computer company, I received my share of angry customer calls. In addition to keeping calm at all times in response to angry statements, I would try to subliminally impart better customer behavior on all calls. Since this was in the days of Windows 95, I would often have to spell out DOS and Windows commands. If the command included an "I" like "regedit" or "sysedit", I would…

Oh those were the good old days!! IRQ conflicts, jumpers all around and thinking which device I need less :)

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#39

Post by ideonexus » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:18 PM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #26

I have friends in politics and I have even run for office (School Board 17 people ran for 5 positions and 4 were re-elections I got 6th :( but my friend I was running with she got 5th :). My job every election is to go to where the screamers and yellers are. For some reason the election official leaves these people outside that will yell and throw a tantrum if anyone even mentions a different opinion, which lowers vo…

I volunteered for my town Planning Commission last year and have to deal with this all the time now. Residents are constantly ranting on social media accusing us of moving town borders, down-zoning our enemies, holding secret votes, and cutting deals. In reality, the only thing we did last year was approve a swimming pool and do some research on parking.

It's extremely stressful for me as an introvert, but I quietly and patiently explain concepts like due process and open-hearings when I have the opportunity. I stress that everything we do is open to public scrutiny and public comment. I explain that we can't engage on Facebook because it's not an official public forum. I invite people to attend our meetings or read our meeting minutes, but they never do.

Real government is incredibly boring and complicated. Its much more fun to rant and rave about conspiracies on social media.

Re: The CLARA Method of De-Escalation

#40

Post by rtpg » Mon, Jan 22, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

harshreality wrote: post #5

ideonexus wrote: post #3

This technique is extremely powerful in parenting. These are exactly the steps you take to reason with a toddler. Before anything else you have to get them out of their temper ta tantrum and articulating why they are angry. Then you segwey from listening to dialog.

But... If you have to still do this with adults, it means the adults haven't learned to regulate their emotions well enough to listen to a rational argument even while they're upset. It's gotten so bad that some adults never listen to things they don't emotionally agree with, even when they're not initially upset (hearing contrary facts makes them upset). That is a catastrophe for rational thought and discourse. If a…

I get what you're saying, though I've found that handling the emotional part of a discussion first makes the "rational" stuff way easier.

One thing to keep in mind is that many people out there have mental disorders (treated and untreated) that make it difficult on a chemical level to control these things. For example, ADHD destroys inhibition (causing the classic "speak before you think" behavior) on a deep level that's hard to work out even after a lot of training.

The way I see it is that emotional appeals serve first to level the playing field for this kind of state of mind, so that the rational discussion can happen. The Jobsian Reality Distortion Field is a thing, but for the most part I think it's about complementing the rational discussion.