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Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

theguardian.com

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Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#91

Post by toomuchtodo »

kodablah wrote: post #85
toomuchtodo wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the difference between malaria and tobacco use, considering nicotine is highly addictive? If substance abuse is a disease, why is it “wrong” to attack it or it’s vectors in the same way as a biological disease?

Because the carriers are not mosquitoes? "If X is a disease, why is it 'wrong' to attack it or it's vectors in the same way as a biological disease?" Surely you can see what a nonsensical statement that is for many values of X be it substance abuse, gambling, etc.

I don’t. If we’re not going to outlaw substances that have extremely limited therapeutical uses in their current form while allowing corporations to profit by causing great harm to millions of people, you explore other avenues to fix the problem.

I’d offer a vaccine for addiction if one existed, but until that time, you hack around the lack of political will.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#92

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

yakitori wrote: post #80
Hasz wrote: post #37

I have an intense personal dislike of smoking. If more people are really moving off them, all the better. From the intrusion on others (second hand smoke) to the cancer, to the litter, there is absolutely nothing positive about cigarettes. I'm no fan of vaping, but as an intermediate step to the elimination of smoking, it is a necessary evil. I would be very happy if cigarettes vanished from the world.

> I have an intense personal dislike of smoking. If you ever lived in an apartment with a neighbor who smokes, it turns from intense personal dislike to pure hate. I will never understand how people can smoke in their homes. It literally turns your house into an ashtray. > I'm no fan of vaping, but as an intermediate step to the elimination of smoking, it is a necessary evil. Unless it turns out to be more toxic. The…

Stench is the big problem. Same with marijuana and some cooking. Other than that I wouldn’t care about others doing it at all.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#93

Post by toomuchtodo »

mnx wrote: post #64
toomuchtodo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. The only solution is subsidized rehabilitation or elimination of tobacco (the latter I intend to kickstart, to fund the use of CRISPR to gene drive a detrimental gene in tobacco). If we can do it with mosquitoes, no reason we can’t use it against tobacco.

That sounds like a really bad idea. Also, you can make synthetic nicotine. So eliminating tobacco wouldn't help.

Nicotine, while highly addictive, would still cause far less damage to its users if consumed through a patch, gum or e-cigarette. I’m disrupting a suboptimal consumption method.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#94

Post by zerokernel »

nvus wrote: post #56
baumbart wrote: post #17

I would never want to become a business partner with someone who is smoking cigarettes. Why? For me it indicates a lack of intelligence, not being good at dealing with stress and bad long-term thinking. When smoking cigarettes you are paying twice - first when spending money in order to ruin your health, and many years later when you are spending money on health-care in order to fix your ruined health. The Greeks hav…

That's a bad habit you have there, I bet you thinking extends to more than just people who smoke, I would distance myself from people with this line of thinking when looking for a business partner.

So, the feeling is mutual then? Isn't that great, you've got so much in common!

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#95

Post by mirimir »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #93
mnx wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a really bad idea. Also, you can make synthetic nicotine. So eliminating tobacco wouldn't help.

Nicotine, while highly addictive, would still cause far less damage to its users if consumed through a patch, gum or e-cigarette. I’m disrupting a suboptimal consumption method.

Indeed. The last time that I quit tobacco, I kept chewing nicotine gum for several months. To get the attention-focusing effect. But I really don't like chewing gum, and so gave it up. And modafinil is better, anyway.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#96

Post by Hasz »

yesenadam wrote: post #90
trevyn wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is absolutely nothing positive about cigarettes. This is a silly statement. People smoke for many legitimate reasons beyond having an active addiction.

Wow. You are getting downvoted for stating the obvious. Reason 1. People enjoy smoking. I'm not sure how people can manage to say stuff like absolutely nothing positive . It's like those lists of the effects of marijuana that list no positive effects whatsoever. Fairly obviously, no-one would smoke if it had no positive effects. There's a kind of moral crusade blindness common to phenomena like this. People can say e…

Easily, although maybe I should clarify.

I probably should have written "objectively positive". People's enjoyment is entirely subjective. What I enjoy and what you enjoy are probably different sets.

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#97

Post by [deleted] »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #76
kodablah wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When reading this comment, I am glad prohibitionists didn't have these scientific tools a century ago. Creepy.

What’s the difference between malaria and tobacco use, considering nicotine is highly addictive? If substance abuse is a disease, why is it “wrong” to attack it or it’s vectors in the same way as a biological disease?

[deleted]

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#98

Post by xref »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #71
WalterBright wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all a matter of how high the taxes are. The higher they are, the more profit there is in smuggling.

Australia is pretty high, in Sydney they go for more than $25 a pack. Still, smuggling would require long boats rides and stuff, while Australia is a pretty rule of law place.

cigarette snuggling sounds like an RJ Reynolds plan to get more kids smoking

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#99

Post by copper_think »

walshemj wrote: post #44
kjksf wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation: "Most studies found that raising cigarette prices through increased taxes is a highly effective measure for reducing smoking among youth, young adults, and persons of low socioeconomic status" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228562/

Only works for countries that don't have a large "black" economy and HMRC spends a lot of effort tracking down smuggled tobacco - normally sold in the back bar of the less salubrious pubs.

Her Majesty's Revenue Collector ?

Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers

#100

Post by yesenadam »

Hasz wrote: post #96
yesenadam wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. You are getting downvoted for stating the obvious. Reason 1. People enjoy smoking. I'm not sure how people can manage to say stuff like absolutely nothing positive . It's like those lists of the effects of marijuana that list no positive effects whatsoever. Fairly obviously, no-one would smoke if it had no positive effects. There's a kind of moral crusade blindness common to phenomena like this. People can say e…

Easily, although maybe I should clarify. I probably should have written "objectively positive". People's enjoyment is entirely subjective. What I enjoy and what you enjoy are probably different sets.

Well, I don't think that's clarifying so much as saying something different. So you don't include pleasure in your list of positive things? That's..odd. "Apart from it feeling good, there's nothing good about experience X" can probably be applied to most things in life. Sex. Music. Art. Ice cream. etc. The question is, why would you want to exclude pleasure?

"What I enjoy and what you enjoy are probably different sets." Well, of course people each enjoy different things, but how that's relevant to your point I'm not sure.

I recently heard Doug Crockford saying a similar thing, that smoking has nothing positive about it, with evident pleasure, in his talk on programming, the brain and the gut; "Programming Style and Your Brain", I think it was. It was startling - an obviously intelligent guy suddenly saying something entirely baseless and evidently false.

edit: Downvoters, could you explain why? Thanks.

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