Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nowhere to get cheaper tobacco from, nothing to distribute cheaper.
At least in the US, you can still buy cigarettes really cheap on Indian reservations and states like West Virginia.
Same in Washington.
Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers
61–70 of 151 posts
Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Two or three decades back Canada tried high cigarette taxes to reduce smoking. A black market promptly appeared, complete with smuggling across the border and drive by shootings, until the tax was lowered back. (During WW2 which had extensive gas rationing, a black market for that appeared as well, and (you guessed it) drive by shootings.) Of course, today we have the failed war on drugs, with drive by shootings. The…
The high cigarette tax works in Australia. Smuggling across the border is a bit difficult being an island and guns are relatively rare.
It's all a matter of how high the taxes are. The higher they are, the more profit there is in smuggling.
Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you feel the same way about having a business partner that drinks alcohol or is overweight?
> that drinks alcohol I haven't really thought about whether I would be a business partner with someone, but in this case quantity certainly matters. When people say smoker, it is implied someone who smokes often and constantly throughout the day - 24/7. The equivalent drinker would be an alcoholic, not just someone who has a beer on Friday.
I used to smoke, and it was around 4 a day. Hardly all day, but I was still considered a smoker.
Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Increased taxes don't have effect on people with poor life choices. I have a few colleagues who are way behind paycheck to paycheck, but will always have smokes. They would rather have a pack or 2 and skip meals not being able to afford them (packs costing ~$13 cad).
Indeed. The only solution is subsidized rehabilitation or elimination of tobacco (the latter I intend to kickstart, to fund the use of CRISPR to gene drive a detrimental gene in tobacco). If we can do it with mosquitoes, no reason we can’t use it against tobacco.
That sounds like a really bad idea. Also, you can make synthetic nicotine. So eliminating tobacco wouldn't help.
Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Increased taxes don't have effect on people with poor life choices. I have a few colleagues who are way behind paycheck to paycheck, but will always have smokes. They would rather have a pack or 2 and skip meals not being able to afford them (packs costing ~$13 cad).
Indeed. The only solution is subsidized rehabilitation or elimination of tobacco (the latter I intend to kickstart, to fund the use of CRISPR to gene drive a detrimental gene in tobacco). If we can do it with mosquitoes, no reason we can’t use it against tobacco.
When reading this comment, I am glad prohibitionists didn't have these scientific tools a century ago. Creepy.
Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers
#66On the hypothesis that smoking was covering some kind of need in smokers, what's replacing smoking? What is that need and what's covering it now?
When the US went through the same thing, it superficially seemed like cigarettes were largely replaced by caffeine, particularly in the form of "energy drinks" like Red Bull and 5-Hour Energy. It's possible that this is just a coincidence, though.
As to what specifically the need might be, there's a good bit of circumstantial evidence to suggest that nicotine relieves or compensates for some symptoms of schizophrenia, ADHD, and related disorders.
Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers
#67The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Tax cigarettes and people smoke less. Tax them highly and kids sure can't afford them. It's more politically easy to put money into paying celebrities to beg kids not to smoke, but it's not actually effective. It's just theater so politicians can say they tried. Here, Greece is seeing the affordability fall just be…
Not that I disagree with you that taxing cigarettes work, but what about Australian examples of additional policies including plain packaging laws, banning on advertising, the graphic health warnings on packs, combined with workplace and hospitality smoking bans?
Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers
#68The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. Tax cigarettes and people smoke less. Tax them highly and kids sure can't afford them. It's more politically easy to put money into paying celebrities to beg kids not to smoke, but it's not actually effective. It's just theater so politicians can say they tried. Here, Greece is seeing the affordability fall just be…
> The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable.
Not exactly. A better way to phrase it: "The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make laws around how smoking items can be sold." Whether that law is to require tax, or age, or whatever. In your example, they are laws around requiring extra money be charged when selling something. Whether something works should not be the only factor in its implementation, especially at the state/legal level. Otherwise, you fall victim to the prohibitionist fallacy.
Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The only measure that has ever been shown to work to reduce smoking is to make smoking less affordable. [citation needed] I grew up with plenty of poor high school kids who had no problem finding cigarettes even when the taxes were jacked up on them here in Canada. I know many of them as adults who continued to smoke even as the price has continued to climb over the last 10yrs. I've never heard anyone say they quit…
Citation: "Most studies found that raising cigarette prices through increased taxes is a highly effective measure for reducing smoking among youth, young adults, and persons of low socioeconomic status" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3228562/
"some estimate that for most intents and purposes, tobacco tax increases are also regressive even at the population level" [...] "While there are numerous studies that support the effectiveness of increasing prices, most declare that equity implications need to be paramount."
An important point to be sure. I think we should just execute smokers. Surely a study will show that reduces smoking. /s ...or maybe we can just realize the ends don't justify the means.
Re: Greeks are abandoning cigarettes in record numbers
#70I have an intense personal dislike of smoking. If more people are really moving off them, all the better. From the intrusion on others (second hand smoke) to the cancer, to the litter, there is absolutely nothing positive about cigarettes. I'm no fan of vaping, but as an intermediate step to the elimination of smoking, it is a necessary evil. I would be very happy if cigarettes vanished from the world.
>there is absolutely nothing positive about cigarettes.
This is a silly statement. People smoke for many legitimate reasons beyond having an active addiction.