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The radical idea of a world without jobs

theguardian.com

71–80 of 260 posts

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#71
post #2

In 1845, Karl Marx wrote that in a communist society workers would be freed from the monotony of a single draining job to “hunt in the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening, criticise after dinner” Starve in the morning, starve in the afternoon, starve in the evening, self-criticise instead of dinner. FTFY.

Nice, I've never heard that one before. What a stunning contribution to the discussion. /s

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#72
Unpopular opinion: It is easy to work less or nearly work nothing and still get by fine (in the context of the modern western world!), the issue is more that people spend their money in bad ways and make bad long term decisions. If you live reasonable and don't spend money on things you don't need you also don't need to work so much...And I often heard from people now "I don't even know why I work so much, I don't need the money". I am sure most people would prefer to work less if the system would allow it.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#73

I’m stuck in a dead end job right now. I will never be granted a shred of decision making capacity or autonomy. It is a waiting game. Waiting for more assignments. Waiting until 5PM. Waiting for my paycheck. Waiting to get fired. Waiting to retire. Waiting to die. ( n * (Commute. Sit. Wait. Commute. Eat. Sleep.)) Die. Where n == the days I have left in this world. The things I work on feel like absurd, meaningless bo…

Are there helpless people who depend directly on you to avoid suffering if you miss 2 or 3 paychecks? If not, then what are you going to do about this situation you're in?

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people get caught in situations where furthering their career and eating next week are mutually exclusive propositions.

If actual slaves were able to escape and make their way to freedom and satisfying lives, then surely office workers can do the same.

While the chances were always slim for survival in this case, if you have accepted death as equally good to life, you can risk everything.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#75
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These conversations I feel always seem shallow to me. Automation is definitely helping to free us from a lot of work.. but the world we live in today feels like a preview of what an automated world feels like. In reality, our material lifestyle is still supported by a very large number of people working away in countries most Americans can't find on a map for extremely low wages. If we're going to talk about "reorgan…

Do you know that 8 people in the world have as much wealth as 3.6 BILLION people. That inequality is STAGGERING. Where do you think the problem lies?

I find the use of this statistic really frustrating, if you're say an average westerner with $10,000 of debt and $2,000 savings - your net wealth is -$8,000. If on the other hand you sift through garbage somewhere in Africa and earn 50c per day your net wealth is ~$0. By this metric the garbage site worker is wealthier than the Westerner fresh from university.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#76

Unpopular opinion: It is easy to work less or nearly work nothing and still get by fine (in the context of the modern western world!), the issue is more that people spend their money in bad ways and make bad long term decisions. If you live reasonable and don't spend money on things you don't need you also don't need to work so much...And I often heard from people now "I don't even know why I work so much, I don't ne…

In America rent and healthcare are two big expenses that you can't escape from. You could live in rural areas and then you don't have a job or you do but you're spending most of your income on car expenses.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#77

Unpopular opinion: It is easy to work less or nearly work nothing and still get by fine (in the context of the modern western world!), the issue is more that people spend their money in bad ways and make bad long term decisions. If you live reasonable and don't spend money on things you don't need you also don't need to work so much...And I often heard from people now "I don't even know why I work so much, I don't ne…

This depends a lot on what country you live in and whether or not you have children.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#78

I’m stuck in a dead end job right now. I will never be granted a shred of decision making capacity or autonomy. It is a waiting game. Waiting for more assignments. Waiting until 5PM. Waiting for my paycheck. Waiting to get fired. Waiting to retire. Waiting to die. ( n * (Commute. Sit. Wait. Commute. Eat. Sleep.)) Die. Where n == the days I have left in this world. The things I work on feel like absurd, meaningless bo…

What makes you stuck? You sound like you've accepted your fate. If you want to change things, just do it. If your reality is so bad that you want to die, then how is taking action to potentially change things worse? A big part of this discussion is people want meaningful work and a meaningful life, but they want other people to give it to them. Why is that expected?

> If you want to change things, just do it.

If only that was as easy as saying it. People have responsibilites and stomachs that don't like (naturally) staying empty. Sometimes you just can't do it.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#79
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you stuck? You sound like you've accepted your fate. If you want to change things, just do it. If your reality is so bad that you want to die, then how is taking action to potentially change things worse? A big part of this discussion is people want meaningful work and a meaningful life, but they want other people to give it to them. Why is that expected?

Meaningful work doesn't grow on trees.

Anything can be meaningful. You might not think making sushi for 60 years is meaningful, but a guy named Jiro does.

Even if you have to have an "interesting" job, most people aren't but a few years of schooling out. Hell, we're in tech where you're a few years of study and practice from being world class and/or making hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Yeah, you've got to work at it, but that's really meaningful work.

Re: The radical idea of a world without jobs

#80
post #23

Am I the only one who likes work? And I don’t mean my job, just work in general.

If you like work in general, then either you are very easily entertained, or you have never had a truly boring job. Have you ever worked on a factory line for 40 hours a week on minimum wage, doing something only slightly too complicated for a machine?

Sort of, I’ve washed dishes for a living, bussed tables at an Outback steakhouse, worked as a line cook, stocked groceries at Kroger, and am now a professional software engineer and hobbyist artist.

My favorite gig was probably stocking groceries, as I enjoyed my coworkers and working at night.

Almost all of these jobs have been “truly boring”, but I’ve also been unemployed and completely without direction. That period of my life was very difficult, and I found that work, no matter how boring the job is, afforded me a dignity and purpose that I couldn’t find anywhere else. Of course, others may feel differently, and I understand that.

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