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Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

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Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#171

Post by TheCoelacanth »

Cogito wrote: post #133
derekp7 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that result in a higher price for food (something everyone needs to survive), and end up hurting more people than it helps?

A thesis I've been hearing a lot about recently goes something like the following. It doesn't speak directly to subsidising food production costs, but is related to the same idea - what is wrong with cheap and plentiful food? Here is the thesis: ---- Ongoing food and clothing donations to countries in need cause more harm than good. While short term donations are able to help bridge emergency situations, such as afte…

It's basically just the same problem as with the predatory pricing strategy called "dumping". You price your product below your cost to produce it to make your competition go out of business, then you can raise prices to exploit your monopoly position.

In kind food aid is essentially unintentional predatory pricing.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#172

Post by Houshalter »

tomrod wrote: post #10

The "Drug Trafficking Organizations" are the cartels. It is important to remember they don't exist to traffic drugs, they exist for the top leader(s) to obtain and maintain power, like a state-in-waiting. As other activities become more profitable, they switch over to those. Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. This is what unfettered…

This is not anarcho-capitalism. Libertarians are extremely protective about the right to bear arms for good reason. Mexico has very strict gun control and this is the result.

Anarcho capitalism would look more like this: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/07/world/americas/mexico-sta...

The population organized an armed militia and kicked the cartels and government out. They are funded by local orchard owners. Who now have the most power and keep things in order. So it's not really libertarian, but it sure is a lot more stable than what was before.

There's other examples in Mexico. Mormons that have established colonies there. And sneak in weapons to defend themselves and successfully fended off the cartels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpIyaIHsJbc

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#173

Post by lazerpants »

spraak wrote: post #141
IgorPartola wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol actually seems kind of hard to make. I did some beer brewing and it’s a process. Fermentation takes a long time, contamination could make it super foul, etc. As far as the word choice, you are probably right. It’s probsbly better to say “most easily accessible to the DIY community” :)

I think it takes practice for sure, but in terms of necessary equipment and ingredients, it's the simplest. Any sugary water (fruit juice) is enough. And can be done in very small spaces, like in prison like I'd mentioned

Welch's juice (any kind) and baker's yeast in room temperature storage will yield 7-8% alcohol wine in a couple of days. Doesn't taste particularly good but it is very easy.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#174

Post by neosavvy »

JamesBarney wrote: post #129
neosavvy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the fact that the Mexican state needs strength to deal with this. I think I just heard on NPR this morning that more poppies are being grown in Mexico as of late due to perfect climate. I also read the farmers get nearly nothing for their crop, and obviously the high end cartels take all the profits anyways. How would the US possibly strengthen the Mexican Government though, barring massive investment?

Decriminalize other drugs.

Dude, seriously that seems like a terrible idea. We already have an issue with legitimate drugs.

Additionally the original argument was that cartels will seek out whatever means they can to make money.

It'll just shift their efforts towards other money making schemes, ie human trafficking or kidnapping and ransom.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#175

Post by neosavvy »

Feniks wrote: post #86
Hasz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the poster was getting at the fact that pot users dwarf meth users in quantity, for example. I think the OP got it right -- even if there was no heroin crisis in the US, the cartels would turn to some other money-making proposition. The only way to quash them is to strengthen the Mexican state, whether it be this one or a new structure.

The US war on drugs and the US insatiable demand for said drugs has destabilized the entire region. Not something the US media likes to talk about though... The only way to quash the cartels is lowering demand. But yeah that's too hard.

Yeah I agree, if we could kill off demand we'd be fine.

As I jokingly stated though, drugs sell themselves.

Education doesn't work either - look at the D.A.R.E. program.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#176

Post by ttul »

philipkglass wrote: post #99
yazaddaruvala wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada legalized marijuana, the US did not react. Mexico could legalize marijuana with little US recourse. Heroin and Cocaine might be problematic.

I don't think that the US government would react drastically if Mexico legalized cannabis. I think that it would react drastically if Mexico legalized "hard" drugs, as ttul suggested. On further consideration, I don't know if legalizing all drugs in Mexico would really hurt drug smuggling profits. The value of the product would still be much higher on the US side of the border. Legalization would just decrease the co…

Since production of alcohol in Canada was legal during the US prohibition, presumably all of that production was done by legitimate businesses. Then licorice macularis would be on the right side of the law until they cross the border. Thus there would be no need for criminal activity until you reached the border. Right?

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#177

Post by philipkglass »

ttul wrote: post #176
philipkglass wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that the US government would react drastically if Mexico legalized cannabis. I think that it would react drastically if Mexico legalized "hard" drugs, as ttul suggested. On further consideration, I don't know if legalizing all drugs in Mexico would really hurt drug smuggling profits. The value of the product would still be much higher on the US side of the border. Legalization would just decrease the co…

Since production of alcohol in Canada was legal during the US prohibition, presumably all of that production was done by legitimate businesses. Then licorice macularis would be on the right side of the law until they cross the border. Thus there would be no need for criminal activity until you reached the border. Right?

That's the null hypothesis. It seems to make intuitive sense. I still need to read up before I find out if that is how it actually worked.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#178

Post by krrrh »

djrogers wrote: post #139
krrrh wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How would the US possibly strengthen the Mexican Government though, barring massive investment? Not creating uncertainty by constantly threatening to pull out of NAFTA would be a good start. Helping to strengthen Mexico's economy was once a mainstream republican position seen to mutually benefit both countries. [1] [1] Excerpt on illegal immigrants from Regan/Bush 1980 primary debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?…

> Not creating uncertainty by constantly threatening to pull out of NAFTA would be a good start. Not that I think such an action would be a good idea, or that threatening it is either, but what about the previous 20 years of NAFTA make you believe that it’s strengthening the Mexican state?

It's a general impression from years of reading newspapers. I'm not an expert, I haven't worked out the probabilities of what Mexico would be like without NAFTA, and there are dozens of other confounding factors such as corruption, competition from Asia, war on drugs, innovation-stifling industrial policy (see Carlos Slim's fortune) etc..

I was more focusing on the uncertainty created by the unclear messages from Washington, which does materially delay investment and confidence within Mexico, and makes it harder for the state to focus on defeating the cartels. Though I do believe that trade generally has a positive impact on economies as a whole.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#179

Post by justtopointout »

falsprofet wrote: post #154
globuous wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't mind me but... I double checked :D and you're right !! :) - https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/make_do - http://grammarist.com/usage/make-do-make-due/ According to the second link, here's where it comes from: 'Make do is short for make [something] do well enough, where do carries the rare sense to serve a specified purpose. So this do is similar to the one used in sentences such as, “I could use a cup of coffee, bu…

You double checked second hand sources which don't link to primary sources, so at best you are speculating (that) I were wrong, thank you very much. Edit: And either way, I didn't contest make do as it is used now, I merely hinted at a different origin. So, by that line of reasoning, if make due is in use, it is correct simply by merit of custom, as well. PS: And this is why these comments are frowned upon, they inva…

If you look at the actual search results in books for "make due" in your link, you can see that they're used differently.

'Make due' and 'make do' are different phrases which mean different things. I can't see any evidence of people using 'make due' how they did (and we still do) use 'make do' today from the results in your link?

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#180

Post by JamesBarney »

neosavvy wrote: post #174
JamesBarney wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Decriminalize other drugs.

Dude, seriously that seems like a terrible idea. We already have an issue with legitimate drugs. Additionally the original argument was that cartels will seek out whatever means they can to make money. It'll just shift their efforts towards other money making schemes, ie human trafficking or kidnapping and ransom.

But those avenues are far less profitable than drugs, and easier to stop.

Lets look at a historical example, after prohibition did human trafficking and kidnapping jump up enormously because the gangs were going to make money somehow?

Or did the number of violent crimes and influence of gangs drop off because there wasn't a huge river of cash flowing into their pockets afterwards?

Sure we have an issue with legitimate drugs. Decriminalizing will not stop our drug problem, but it will reduce our, and especially mexico's crime problem. And I, and I bet all of north mexico would rather have a drug problem than a crime problem. (For one drug's only directly affect the user, but crime affects everyone)

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