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Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

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Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#121

Post by adventured »

chrischen wrote: post #103
ttul wrote: post #72

Why doesn't Mexico just legalize heroin and cocaine distribution? Wouldn't this put an end to the cartels?

The United States heavily punishes countries that legalize drugs, if not by direct sanctions, then by pulling aid. See how US threatened UN with pulling aid, and Pakistan.

Would you mind elaborating how the US heavily punished Portugal for its actions around drugs?

Or for that matter, what crippling sanctions the US placed on Canada for legalizing pot?

The peaks days of the drug war are long over. The US has no real capacity to do anything to nations for such decisions, that has become very clear. As more nations and US states legalize and decriminalize, the pro war on drugs group will be and or is being shown to have very little actual power. At this point even the Republicans are increasingly coming around to the drug war being an absurdity. Jeff Sessions & Co. are dinosaurs on the way out rather rapidly, the US will probably have a majority of states legalized re pot within the next decade.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#122

Post by sunyata »

snarfy wrote: post #45
sunyata wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a citation for that? Ive been to a shop or two that felt a little sketchy but this interests me.

No citation unfortunately. My friend who runs a dispensary told me.

Seems legit... :(

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#123

Post by romwell »

DickingAround wrote: post #114
tomrod wrote: post #10

The "Drug Trafficking Organizations" are the cartels. It is important to remember they don't exist to traffic drugs, they exist for the top leader(s) to obtain and maintain power, like a state-in-waiting. As other activities become more profitable, they switch over to those. Marijuana loses its profitability, they can switch to other drugs, guns, smuggling, "coyotes", or legitimate enterprise. This is what unfettered…

What a strange claim about 'capitalism'. This is the opposite of regular or even anarcho capitalism; this is a capitalism where you select out for anyone able to do other trades or generally comply with social norms. Cartels and this kind of behavior don't happen because it's an ultra-free market or something. It happens because regular capitalists aren't participating in that market. What an absurd claim to paint ca…

Do we see a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman in the wild?

"Of course this is not a failure of Capitalism. No True Capitalists would do such a thing. What you need is more Capitalism to solve this problem."

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#124

Post by bitL »

Fnoord wrote: post #98
freeflight wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On what basis are you making such a statement? Afaik many people use meth for performance enhancement and as a cheaper alternative to coke, heroin mostly comes in with people who've built up an opiate addiction through prescription opiates and a cheap escapist solution. Add in a generally very crappy living situation, where these substances are used as means of escapism from reality, and most of the habit boils down…

> On what basis are you making such a statement? That's whats being thought on elementary school traditionally, haha. You don't have to look far though. Look at the usage of Khat by Somalians and Kratom by Thai. If its easily available and socially accepted, its gonna fly and will be very difficult to get rid of. I can't wrap my head around using meth. Speed alone makes my head swirl and everything go fast. Exactly w…

It starts on Thu due to commuters going back home on Friday afternoon that don't want to miss out on club action.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#125

Post by badminton1 »

The US needed a lot of morphine during WW2. So it bought all the morphine Mexico could produce.

After the war they were left with lots of crops but no legal market for them. This led many of them to turn to the illegal market.

Cartels pay a lot of money in bribes and security which will not be necessary with legalization. It is possible they just become legal growers.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#126

Post by derekp7 »

coredog64 wrote: post #120
neosavvy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the fact that the Mexican state needs strength to deal with this. I think I just heard on NPR this morning that more poppies are being grown in Mexico as of late due to perfect climate. I also read the farmers get nearly nothing for their crop, and obviously the high end cartels take all the profits anyways. How would the US possibly strengthen the Mexican Government though, barring massive investment?

End US crop subsidies. Small Mexican farmers can't compete with large, mechanized, subsidized operations in the US. Subsequently they aren't working paying taxes. This would also be a boon to agricultural nation's in Africa.

Would that result in a higher price for food (something everyone needs to survive), and end up hurting more people than it helps?

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#127

Post by IgorPartola »

WalterSear wrote: post #14
IgorPartola wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meth is actually really interesting. It's a very democratic drug in that it's really easy for the user to make it themselves. Pot is another one that theoretically lets you grow it yourself, but it's significantly harder and requires a larger investment. From what I gather, as long as you manage to not blow yourself up, the shake and bake method requires very little supplies and tools to make meth. Edit: to be clear,…

> Pot is another one that theoretically lets you grow it yourself, but it's significantly harder and requires a larger investment. A bunch of seeds and a pot of compost? Speaking from experience, fwiw.

Not speaking from experience but I thought it requires heating lamps, knowledge of make vs female plants, different types, etc.

I suppose in the states where it’s been decriminalized, you can grow it outdoors and not worry about some of that stuff, but that certainly seems like more work than tossing some Sudafed and whatever else in an empty can and shaking it a bunch.

Again, not advocating anyone try meth. Do not try meth.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#128

Post by IgorPartola »

spraak wrote: post #17
IgorPartola wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meth is actually really interesting. It's a very democratic drug in that it's really easy for the user to make it themselves. Pot is another one that theoretically lets you grow it yourself, but it's significantly harder and requires a larger investment. From what I gather, as long as you manage to not blow yourself up, the shake and bake method requires very little supplies and tools to make meth. Edit: to be clear,…

I'm not sure what would be more fitting, but "democratic" seems like thewrong word here. I understand what you mean, though. The easiest drug to make yourself is probably alcohol e.g. people making their own in prison.

Alcohol actually seems kind of hard to make. I did some beer brewing and it’s a process. Fermentation takes a long time, contamination could make it super foul, etc.

As far as the word choice, you are probably right. It’s probsbly better to say “most easily accessible to the DIY community” :)

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#129

Post by JamesBarney »

neosavvy wrote: post #76
Hasz wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the poster was getting at the fact that pot users dwarf meth users in quantity, for example. I think the OP got it right -- even if there was no heroin crisis in the US, the cartels would turn to some other money-making proposition. The only way to quash them is to strengthen the Mexican state, whether it be this one or a new structure.

I agree with the fact that the Mexican state needs strength to deal with this. I think I just heard on NPR this morning that more poppies are being grown in Mexico as of late due to perfect climate. I also read the farmers get nearly nothing for their crop, and obviously the high end cartels take all the profits anyways. How would the US possibly strengthen the Mexican Government though, barring massive investment?

Decriminalize other drugs.

Re: Is Legal Pot Crippling Mexican Drug Trafficking Organisations?

#130

Post by JamesBarney »

eric_h wrote: post #22
sigstoat wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is what unfettered capitalism (anarcho-capitalism) looks like. I like capitalism, generally, but divorcing morality (or, alternatively, failing to separate socially-contracted power to coerce action) from economic gain results in the violence and brutality. no. the cartels are what you get when you actively block organizations that are serving huge needs (recreational drugs), from access to peaceful means of c…

> no. the cartels are what you get when you actively block organizations that are serving huge needs (recreational drugs), from access to peaceful means of conflict resolution and contract enforcement. That’s how cartels get power in the first place, but once they’re there, they’re in the business of preserving revenue streams and territory and thus power. Once they’re large enough, their raison d’être is no longer s…

Yeah, but one of the reasons they are so hard to eliminate is they have enormous bank rolls for guns and money.

If their markets were eliminated through legalization they might turn to violence for a little while, but eventually the organizations would starve. You can't run a 8.6 billion dollar kidnapping business.

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