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Airbus A380, Once the Future of Aviation, May Cease Production

nytimes.com

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Re: Airbus A380, Once the Future of Aviation, May Cease Production

#41

Post by AGoodName »

627467 wrote: post #30
jedberg wrote: post #25

What a shame. The best flying experience I've ever had was coach on an A380 from SFO to Frankfurt. It was the only time I arrived feeling awake and fresh. The air felt cleaner, the lighting was great, and it was so smooth . I get why it isn't popular, but it's just too bad. I really liked flying on one.

I recently flew a 787 for first time and felt it provided a similar spacious experience to A380. Ceiling space and the large windows seems to help that experience. I'd still hate to see jumbo jets (specially A380) to disappear.

Both the A380 and 787 have higher internal cabin pressures (equivalent of 6000ft). All other planes operate at lower pressure. Anything above 6000ft leads to altitude sickness for those who live at ~0ft.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/hobica/2017/...

Re: Airbus A380, Once the Future of Aviation, May Cease Production

#42

Post by crooked-v »

deanCommie wrote: post #33

Can someone with a better understanding of economics than me explain something: How is the "point to point" (direct short flights via Ryanair and the like) beating "hub and spoke"(hubs like London and Frankfurt)? I don't mean for convenience - obviously it's nicer to not have layovers. But I mean economically. In the last 10 years, fuel prices have only gone up, as has environmental awareness, and the A380 is surely…

A lot of people value "not having to make a layover" more than you think.

Re: Airbus A380, Once the Future of Aviation, May Cease Production

#43

Post by brunnsbe »

AGoodName wrote: post #41
627467 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently flew a 787 for first time and felt it provided a similar spacious experience to A380. Ceiling space and the large windows seems to help that experience. I'd still hate to see jumbo jets (specially A380) to disappear.

Both the A380 and 787 have higher internal cabin pressures (equivalent of 6000ft). All other planes operate at lower pressure. Anything above 6000ft leads to altitude sickness for those who live at ~0ft. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/hobica/2017/...

You forgot the A350, which is also mentioned in the article.

Re: Airbus A380, Once the Future of Aviation, May Cease Production

#44

Post by andrewjl »

mschuster91 wrote: post #18
rdtsc wrote: post #3

I like to use A380 as an analogy when a team works to perfect a product, adds lots of features, rewrites it a few times with the latest most buzzword-compliant technology, tests it until it is absolutely perfect, and ships it. ... Only to find out by that time the market has moved on and nobody wants to buy that kind of a thing anymore. Pretty sure that's a common theme for companies which end up on https://ourincred…

The problem is that you cannot simply ship a not "absolutely perfect" plane. Or, actually, it's not a problem but a blessing given that there were no commercial flight related fatalities in the USA in 2017 (per http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-aviation-safety-201801... ). No doubt: Without the drastic levels of regulation the FAA (and JAA) impose on civilian flight, fatalities would be orders of magnitude higher…

2017 also saw no commercial flight related fatalities worldwide, in large part due to the NTSB (and it's non-US equivalents) process of getting the root cause of each crash and putting in place systems or procedures to eliminate that particular failure domain.

Re: Airbus A380, Once the Future of Aviation, May Cease Production

#45

Post by ghaff »

double0jimb0 wrote: post #28
pkaye wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not a obvious insight to grasp since airlines take a strategy that makes them the most money and passengers are cost sensitive. Wasn't this the driving force behind the hum and spoke model?

Passengers are cost AND travel-time/hassle sensitive. It appears Airbus didn't place enough value into the "travel-time/hassle" part. More detail: the Dreamliner is 20% more efficient than previous generation planes. This allowed airlines to "break" the major hubs into many quicker/easier direct flights at a price that passengers are willing to pay. Boeing bet increasing value in this manner was superior than Airbus'…

>Passengers are cost AND travel-time/hassle sensitive.

Especially among business travelers. Many business travelers may still shop on price up to a point but they'll tend to do so given that the flights have the same number of stops.

Re: Airbus A380, Once the Future of Aviation, May Cease Production

#46

Post by seanmcdirmid »

theGimp wrote: post #29
mschuster91 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that you cannot simply ship a not "absolutely perfect" plane. Or, actually, it's not a problem but a blessing given that there were no commercial flight related fatalities in the USA in 2017 (per http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-aviation-safety-201801... ). No doubt: Without the drastic levels of regulation the FAA (and JAA) impose on civilian flight, fatalities would be orders of magnitude higher…

Cheap shot, but I'll take it. All 14 days of 2018? :)

The article said in 2017, probably a typo on the poster's side. The article is about Trump trying to take credit for this (as he always does), when it is actually the 6th straight year without fatalities. Politically speaking, we are living in dark times even if aviation is super safe.

Re: Airbus A380, Once the Future of Aviation, May Cease Production

#47

Post by pencilhappen »

jedberg wrote: post #25

What a shame. The best flying experience I've ever had was coach on an A380 from SFO to Frankfurt. It was the only time I arrived feeling awake and fresh. The air felt cleaner, the lighting was great, and it was so smooth . I get why it isn't popular, but it's just too bad. I really liked flying on one.

This sort of anecdata always crops up on airline threads. Flight experience can vary pretty wildly by airline, even on the same type of plane, since the interior layout and amenities are up to the airline, and not the plane manufacturer.

The best long haul experience I've had in recent years was on a Singapore Airlines A380. The worst one in the same timeframe was on a British Airways A380. Both times economy class.

I've been on a 787 on a few different carriers and they've all been pretty nice.

Re: Airbus A380, Once the Future of Aviation, May Cease Production

#49

Post by raz32dust »

double0jimb0 wrote: post #15

Interning at Boeing in 2005, when the Dreamliner was still 2-3 years away from production, I asked a BD manager if Boeing was worried about A380 (the burning question at the time was "Who is going to win, A380/Airbus or Dreamliner/Boeing"). Without pause, he said "Not worried at all, A380 serves the hub and spoke model, which is dying. People hate layovers, they want more direct flights." Not a hard insight to grasp,…

Isn't A350 the competitor to Dreamliner? I think A380 was aimed at replacing B747, which it did. Also I feel (no data) that hub and spoke is alive and well. It's just that it is using more efficient, lower capacity flights (B787, A350) which are easier to fill up and maintain.

Re: Airbus A380, Once the Future of Aviation, May Cease Production

#50

Post by chrisper »

double0jimb0 wrote: post #15

Interning at Boeing in 2005, when the Dreamliner was still 2-3 years away from production, I asked a BD manager if Boeing was worried about A380 (the burning question at the time was "Who is going to win, A380/Airbus or Dreamliner/Boeing"). Without pause, he said "Not worried at all, A380 serves the hub and spoke model, which is dying. People hate layovers, they want more direct flights." Not a hard insight to grasp,…

You have to admit that it was a gamble though.
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