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Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

economist.com

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Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#61

Post by ikeyany »

BjoernKW wrote: post #44
ikeyany wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything wrong with waiting to have sex with someone you're invested in? I've found those types of experiences to be worth it, long-term. It's interesting that some see that as naive--it's the opposite if anything. Easy sex is fun but it would seem hard to invest in anyone but myself.

I'd say it depends on if it's truly what you want or if it's something that society wants from you. Too often these ideas are societal norms rather than our own opinions. Notions like "waiting for Prince Charming" or the one things like purity rings are a symptom of in my opinion are indeed naive and against human nature.

I'm all for encouraging people to be honest with themselves, even if that honesty leads them to ugly places.

But we are talking strictly about the ability to have fulfilling monogamous relationships, not the validity of "prince Charming" narratives or purity rings.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#62

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

BjoernKW wrote: post #52
icebraining wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a vast difference between a hookup culture and having consensual, if casual, sex with someone. Is hookup necessarily (or even mostly) non-consensual? I'm probably missing some cultural context, what's the distinction you're making?

It's about the way it's painted in the media. Hookups are often depicted as negative, morally questionable and at times non-consensual as well (mostly involving drugs). There's been a moral panic about this in recent years. Having consensual, casual sex with someone on the other hand shouldn't ever be considered questionable, given that you're being honest with everyone involved, which might include someone you're in…

> Hookups are often depicted as negative, morally questionable and at times non-consensual as well (mostly involving drugs).

Why on Earth would you conflate hookups and rape? Please stop.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#63

Post by mcantelon »

comstock wrote: post #56
mcantelon wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The birthrate in most of the West is sub-replacement. Inter-generation testosterone decreases, and cultural factors, likely play a part. Youth suicides have gone up considerably in the last decade.

Having two kids, the answer feels really obvious to me, but I’d love to see data supporting any viewpoint. Raising multiple children in western society is really hard. In many (most?) cases you need to move away from family (parents) so there’s limited support from the community or family. There’s limited childcare available, and on top of that kids are expensive. Often both partners are working (or want to get back…

True. Societies may, however, be hesitant to follow our footsteps towards atomization and low birthrate.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#64

Post by vedloseper »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #43
qubex wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re most welcome to reject this ”Judeo-Christian prudishness” (or whatever you want to call it) but just keep in mind I’m an atheist, and all for rejecting dogma — including the new doctrines of consumerism that is snaking it’s way into our private sphere, making us all willing to use each other (apparently) for our short-term jollies.

There is nothing new about us humans having short-term jollies, or even medium- / long-term jollies that are non-monogamous. Short- / medium- / long-term non-monogamous jollies goes as far back as time immemorial. As far back as the beginnings of life itself. I'm willing to bet monogamy is the new normal as far as historical longevity is concerned. I'm no anthropologist, so I'm willing to be corrected on that matter.…

People also have been rejecting that since time immemorial, so the strength of your argument just barely suffices to eat itself.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#65

Post by qubex »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #50
yarrrr wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The downvotes are telling. They wanted to make heterosexuals as promiscuous as homosexuals to normalise their situation. Now that's being undone. Certain people are scared.

haha wtf Maybe people just want to enjoy their life without some judgy puritans telling them what to do

Apparently not, hence the data reported in the article.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#66

Post by qubex »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #53
yarrrr wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was talking for myself, not for you. Also, homosexuality is abhorrent.

How can nature be abhorrent? That's like saying God made a mistake. It would probably be okay for you to say "I find homosexuality abhorrent", and then we can all laugh you out of the room for your anachronistic opinion. But when you say "homosexuality is abhorrent" without owning the statement, you're attempting to make a universal statement of truth. To which case we will laugh you out of the room for your anachron…

You write about God not making mistakes... but also of repudiating ”Judeo-Christian“ doctrine... which is it?

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#67

Post by krastanov »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #57
watwut wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you simultaneously don't yell how those mostly-single moms are poor and their lives (and lives of their children) sux because they were irresponsible and don't deserve any help whatsoever cause they brought it on themselves. And as long as you subsequently don't claim all youth criminality on those young moms and dads.

I have no idea what you're on about. I'm not claiming any of that.

The point is that many do, and as such this is inherently part of the "cultural quirk" you mentioned. And this is not even mentioning that important development continues after 18.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#68

Post by qubex »

BjoernKW wrote: post #54
BjoernKW wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a vast difference between a hookup culture and having consensual, if casual, sex with someone. A relationship without doubt is a good thing but it isn’t the only thing. Modern society for shallow moral reasons conflates committed relationships with sex. This causes a lot of problems and probably is one of the main reasons why relationships break up or people feel miserable in relationships.

To those downvoting this comment: Renowned relationship therapists like Esther Perel seem to agree with me on this matter.

Ah, the vaunted ”appeal to authority”... a logical fallacy that hadn’t yet shown up on this sub-thread.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#69

Post by qubex »

ParamModule wrote: post #59
watwut wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protip: if you want to argue that non-monogamous sex is cooler and better, your argument will be stronger if you don't call your girl slut. I mean, she is doing what you argue is good, so shaming her weakens that.

Well she was really promiscuous, I'm not shaming her but I get it certain words offend certain people so I should filter what I write.

I’m really confused now... you’re advocating for promiscuity, but also calling somebody out (with unfathomably crude language, but you’ve tried to explain that) for doing what you’re advocating? Is it because she’s female and you’re not that you feel entitled to contrast your behaviours? Did you not know she was promiscuous before getting with her? Did you not care? Did you feel ’unspecial’ when she went her separate way or indulged her alternative passions whilst with you?

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#70

Post by iotscale »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #47
iotscale wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMHO it's bad, as long as a lifestyle is pushed heavily from people who aren't immediate family. Doesn't matter if it's "hookup culture" or waiting for the prince charming to marry.

> as long as a lifestyle is pushed heavily from people who aren't immediate family Is a lifestyle pushed by people who are immediately family inherently a good thing?

I just thought, to a certain age, it may be required. I'm not a parent so I probably don't know what I'm talking about.
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