Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated • Hacker News Board

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#51

Post by ParamModule » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:48 AM UTC

jack9 wrote: post #39

ParamModule wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with that completely, like honestly people that prefer monogamy generally do so because they are either afraid to be alone, because it was what they were brought up on, just don't want to deal with being rejected a bunch before hooking up that night, or they are romantics. Monogamy is rarely worth it just because there aren't a lot of people out there in the world that meet the conditions of the sex not be…

> I disagree with that completely, like honestly people that prefer monogamy generally do so because they are either afraid to be alone, because it was what they were brought up on, just don't want to deal with being rejected a bunch before hooking up that night, or they are romantics. That's a bitter remark. I think there's a lot to be said for having a life partner by the age of 30 (there are movie tropes about thi…

So you are part of the afraid to be alone category.

If you actually enjoy the persons company, and are both sexually satisfied it's not all that difficult to maintain a partnership, and would make you are naturally inclined to be tolerable and willing to negotiate.

But if I were to pick between dying alone, and sharing my life with some cow who I have nothing in common with which is a situation a lot of stable marriages devolve into, I would pick the former.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#52

Post by BjoernKW » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:48 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #26

BjoernKW wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a vast difference between a hookup culture and having consensual, if casual, sex with someone. A relationship without doubt is a good thing but it isn’t the only thing. Modern society for shallow moral reasons conflates committed relationships with sex. This causes a lot of problems and probably is one of the main reasons why relationships break up or people feel miserable in relationships.

There’s a vast difference between a hookup culture and having consensual, if casual, sex with someone. Is hookup necessarily (or even mostly) non-consensual? I'm probably missing some cultural context, what's the distinction you're making?

It's about the way it's painted in the media. Hookups are often depicted as negative, morally questionable and at times non-consensual as well (mostly involving drugs). There's been a moral panic about this in recent years.

Having consensual, casual sex with someone on the other hand shouldn't ever be considered questionable, given that you're being honest with everyone involved, which might include someone you're in a committed relationship with at the time.

So, doing something consensually never is a bad thing. Lying is, to others as well as to yourself.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#53

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:49 AM UTC

yarrrr wrote: post #48

qubex wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t try to make this into a proxy for homophobia, please. This (or at the very least my comment ) has nothing to do with making value judgements on whom you are attracted to or what orientation you subscribe to. There is no attempt at creating moral equivalency and I am definitely not going to let it stand unchallenged that my stance is about denigrating people of differing orientations.

I was talking for myself, not for you. Also, homosexuality is abhorrent.

How can nature be abhorrent? That's like saying God made a mistake.

It would probably be okay for you to say "I find homosexuality abhorrent", and then we can all laugh you out of the room for your anachronistic opinion. But when you say "homosexuality is abhorrent" without owning the statement, you're attempting to make a universal statement of truth.

To which case we will laugh you out of the room for your anachronistic opinion anyway.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#54

Post by BjoernKW » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:50 AM UTC

BjoernKW wrote: post #18

qubex wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Repudiation of this abhorrent ”hookup culture” that seems to be sweeping through our western societies is to be applauded. I’m not arguing for abstention, but reserving sex for monogamous, committed relationships is, as far as I am concerned, an unmitigated good.

There’s a vast difference between a hookup culture and having consensual, if casual, sex with someone. A relationship without doubt is a good thing but it isn’t the only thing. Modern society for shallow moral reasons conflates committed relationships with sex. This causes a lot of problems and probably is one of the main reasons why relationships break up or people feel miserable in relationships.

To those downvoting this comment: Renowned relationship therapists like Esther Perel seem to agree with me on this matter.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#55

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:54 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #38

ikeyany wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything wrong with waiting to have sex with someone you're invested in? I've found those types of experiences to be worth it, long-term. It's interesting that some see that as naive--it's the opposite if anything. Easy sex is fun but it would seem hard to invest in anyone but myself.

Why would investing in someone but yourself require giving up sex with others? That dichotomy between the unattached bachelor and the loving monogamous spouse seems to be just another of those taboos.

[deleted]

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#56

Post by comstock » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 10:59 AM UTC

mcantelon wrote: post #7

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #2

If the downstream consequences of this: > Teenagers are also having less sex, especially of the procreative kind. In 1991, 54% of American teenagers in grades nine to 12 (ages 14-18) reported that they were sexually experienced, and 19% claimed to have had sex with at least four partners. In 2015 those proportions were 41% and 12%. America’s teenage birth rate crashed by two-thirds during the same period. Is this: >…

The birthrate in most of the West is sub-replacement. Inter-generation testosterone decreases, and cultural factors, likely play a part. Youth suicides have gone up considerably in the last decade.

Having two kids, the answer feels really obvious to me, but I’d love to see data supporting any viewpoint.

Raising multiple children in western society is really hard. In many (most?) cases you need to move away from family (parents) so there’s limited support from the community or family. There’s limited childcare available, and on top of that kids are expensive. Often both partners are working (or want to get back to work as soon as possible). So if you can satisfy your procreative desires with one child, you just do that.

Compare this to (totally unjust) prior social norms where people didn’t move as far as they do now. Meaning parents could help out. Where it was common to have one non-working partner (so more available time to look after kids).

We’ve created a modern society where raising one child is super-stressful. Why would any sane person have two? I predict that as more societies transform toward the western model we’ll see a massive population decline.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#57

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 11:00 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #40

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a biological perspective, what purpose does sexual maturity serve other than perpetuation of the species? Therefore, it could be argued that the idea of teenage pregnancy being a problem is a cultural quirk. It could also be argued that adulthood starting at age eighteen is a cultural quirk.

As long as you simultaneously don't yell how those mostly-single moms are poor and their lives (and lives of their children) sux because they were irresponsible and don't deserve any help whatsoever cause they brought it on themselves. And as long as you subsequently don't claim all youth criminality on those young moms and dads.

I have no idea what you're on about. I'm not claiming any of that.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#58

Post by ikeyany » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 11:00 AM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #38

ikeyany wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything wrong with waiting to have sex with someone you're invested in? I've found those types of experiences to be worth it, long-term. It's interesting that some see that as naive--it's the opposite if anything. Easy sex is fun but it would seem hard to invest in anyone but myself.

Why would investing in someone but yourself require giving up sex with others? That dichotomy between the unattached bachelor and the loving monogamous spouse seems to be just another of those taboos.

You're not required to "give up sex with others" if you don't want to. Hell, many people are okay with polyamory or casual sex in general.

I was merely stating that committing sexually can in fact be a good thing, and that the parent comment cannot speak for everyone.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#59

Post by ParamModule » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 11:00 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #30

ParamModule wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with that completely, like honestly people that prefer monogamy generally do so because they are either afraid to be alone, because it was what they were brought up on, just don't want to deal with being rejected a bunch before hooking up that night, or they are romantics. Monogamy is rarely worth it just because there aren't a lot of people out there in the world that meet the conditions of the sex not be…

Protip: if you want to argue that non-monogamous sex is cooler and better, your argument will be stronger if you don't call your girl slut. I mean, she is doing what you argue is good, so shaming her weakens that.

Well she was really promiscuous, I'm not shaming her but I get it certain words offend certain people so I should filter what I write.

Re: Teenagers now better behaved and less hedonistic but lonelier and more isolated

#60

Post by Broken_Hippo » Sun, Jan 14, 2018, 11:01 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #35

BjoernKW wrote: post #14

Indolent and conformist perhaps is another way to describe this. I fail to see how this a good thing. A young generation perpetuating pointless taboos imposed on them rather than making their own experiences frankly is a sad development.

The more open adults are about sex topics, the later children tend to start and the more likely they are to use condoms. The earlie sex and teenage pregnancies were consequence of the taboo. Not other way round.

This, and so much this - enough to comment in support.