Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say • Hacker News Board

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#191

Post by snowpanda » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

f- wrote: post #125

So I posted something along these lines in another, now-duped thread... but I know that many folks were caught completely off guard and started wondering what they would have done in case of a real threat. Many just cracked Twitter jokes about dying in a blaze of glory. For folks who want to understand the actual dangers and survivability of an ICBM strike, I strongly suggest a book from the 1960s written by one of t…

>http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/prep

Did you write this? This is great!

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#192

Post by zwily » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 9:41 PM UTC

djhworld wrote: post #173

packetslave wrote: post #117

Just watched an interview on CNN with the Governor of Hawaii and their director of emergency management. Pretty impressed that the director didn't throw anybody under the bus. He basically said "An employee pushed the wrong button. It's my responsibility, so this is my fault. We're going to make procedure and technical changes to make sure this doesn't happen again."

I wonder what those procedural changes could be Could they do it so say, two people have to input a code or something from different machines, or something more physical like turning two keys, hitting a button etc

You mean like https://youtu.be/pnBVIhiUd_g?

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#193

Post by FLUX-YOU » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

tambienben wrote: post #137

maxerickson wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say otherwise. I implied that if pranksters can pull off a hack it is likely that Russia also can.

So why implicate Russia at all, if its so easy? Sounds like a red herring to me, and also just as conspiratorial as the parent comment.

Both Russia and NK have obvious motives and capability to do it.

It doesn't mean you stop looking for causes or eliminate human error though.

The viability of Russia/NK depends on how the EAS network is set up in Hawaii. If they have internet-facing servers, it's completely possible.

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#194

Post by ImSkeptical » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #164

blantonl wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people are calling for the person who did this to be instantly fired, but I've always been of the opinion that the guy that pushed that button would be an outstanding hire - because he'll never, ever do something like that again and he's learned an important lesson.

I'm always a bit shocked at the number of people here calling for someone's head in this sort of situation. I imagine the same people would downvote to oblivion anyone who came on here and wrote something like: "The only way we're going to get better software is by firing people who write bugs and make sure they never work in the industry again."

I'd say we just don't have enough information. It's possible someone deserves to be fired for this - e.g. if the alarm was intentional or negligent. It's also possible it was a misclick, confusing UI, etc, in which the person or people who should be fired are those who designed the system such that a simple mistake could set it off. There is a third possibility too - that some unpredictable alignment of factors means that ultimately nobody is too badly at fault, in which case the system should just be adapted and improved.

I generally agree with the sentiments of this thread - you shouldn't fire people for the kinds of mistakes that all humans frequently make. However, I also think that this was a severe and costly incident - a large number of people thought for a while they were in significant danger, and investigating who is responsible, and making corrections with regards to their employment, may be reasonable depending on the exact circumstances.

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#195

Post by packetslave » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 9:43 PM UTC

nodesocket wrote: post #185

packetslave wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BINGO. If someone makes a mistake like this, unless it was deliberate or negligent (e.g. he/she didn't follow established procedures), you don't fire them! You fix the technical or procedural failures that allowed them to make the mistake in the first place. Heck, you should probably THANK them for making the system better by uncovering a bug! When I was still mostly a Noogler, I took a large portion of Google comple…

Love to hear the story how you took down Google for six minutes? Was this a long time ago?

This was in 2012. Let's just say that a router config only getting partially applied (because of a software bug) can cause a LOT of traffic to suddenly go places it's not supposed to go.

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#196

Post by JumpCrisscross » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 9:43 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #146

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If NORAD said “incoming missile strike,” sure. That isn’t what happened. The civilian notification system sent out a false positive. Saying “false alarm” would require, at that point, asking the military for affirmative confirmation nothing is wrong. That is a lower priority than responding to an active threat.

This is irrational. If you know a false alarm has occurred then you are endangering people by allowing them to believe the existence of an active threat. I feel like I'm stuck in a car with someone driving off a cliff because the GPS said so even though the edge of the cliff is perfectly visible though the windscreen.

You’re bickering over a thirteen minute delay between a mistake and a correction.

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#197

Post by dzhiurgis » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 9:43 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #184

blantonl wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people are calling for the person who did this to be instantly fired, but I've always been of the opinion that the guy that pushed that button would be an outstanding hire - because he'll never, ever do something like that again and he's learned an important lesson.

Just to play devil's advocate, in some cases the point of firing an employee in a situation like this isn't about that one employee but more pour encourager les autres . So the remaining employees will see that management takes the issue seriously and they need to be diligent about following procedures. In this particular case no real harm was done and firing would probably be excessive.

> no real harm was done

I wish to believe, but probably there was real harm, probably someone will come up with some million figures.

Statistically, probably someone died during those minutes of terror and someone will try to attribute to this incident.

What is interesting that employee probably meant no harm, but compare this to that SWAT murder a month earlier. The prankster meant no harm either, but he's going to spend years in jail. Both for sending a wrong alert.

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#198

Post by smacktoward » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 9:44 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #184

blantonl wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people are calling for the person who did this to be instantly fired, but I've always been of the opinion that the guy that pushed that button would be an outstanding hire - because he'll never, ever do something like that again and he's learned an important lesson.

Just to play devil's advocate, in some cases the point of firing an employee in a situation like this isn't about that one employee but more pour encourager les autres . So the remaining employees will see that management takes the issue seriously and they need to be diligent about following procedures. In this particular case no real harm was done and firing would probably be excessive.

Which is ironic, since pour encourager les autres in this context comes straight from the pen of a great satirist making fun of a dumb, blunt, broken institutional culture -- specifically Voltaire, mocking the British in Candide for responding to the loss of a naval battle not by training their admirals better but by executing one of them "to encourage the others."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide#Satire

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#199

Post by gumby » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 9:45 PM UTC

lhopki01 wrote: post #177

joering2 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just recently I spoke to my friends that literally are living in LaLa land. They are making fun of me prepping and saving dry food, water, stacking up on legal guns and munition. I took upon challenge last xmas to meetup with them and they brought my prepardness as one of laughing subjects. It really saddens me when they believe that when gloves of society are off, we all gonna be happy singing kumbaya and respecting…

Why do you think your preparation will be enough? If things do go that bad then it'll be very few people that will survive because of just how much of our mechanised infrastructure is needed to feed us.

Now your friends know where to go to steal ammo and other supplies when the revolution comes.

This sounds sarcastic but I don't mean it that way. True prepping is leaving (and maintaining!!) caches for adequate time in various locations (you don't know where you'll be when things go sideways, nor what routes will be available).

How long are you preparing for? Days? Months? Years?

Re: Alert About Missile Bound for Hawaii Was Sent in Error, Officials Say

#200

Post by ImSkeptical » Sat, Jan 13, 2018, 9:45 PM UTC

intopieces wrote: post #80

If I were going to erode public trust in emergency broadcast systems in order to increase the amount of damage I would do by launching an actual missile, this is how I would do it. A series of false alarms. A similar, if obviously much smaller and less disastrous example, happens at my apartment about 4 times a week: the fire alarms for entire floors of my apartment building are easily triggered by people smoking in…

I think a series of false alarms would have the effect you describe. However, based on some of the reactions I'm seeing online, I wonder if a one-off false alarm will cause a lot of people to figure out what they should be doing if the alarm were to go off again for real.