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Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

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Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#141

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc »

blueprint wrote: post #102
jdmichal wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15048517 ... "Convergent evidence indicates that non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Non-human animals,…

You're falling for the assumption the brain's role is generating consciousness. It could also not do so yet still be part of an organism which is conscious. I can say that confidently because I understand how consciousness is generated. I could easily say it here and have in the past. Sure, I'll be downvoted by idiots who do not know whether I do or do not know how consciousness works, but are instead acting on their…

What is consciousness? I don't believe that it's universally accepted that it even exists amongst rsearchers. Even those who believe it exists have trouble defining it.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#142

Post by FullMtlAlcoholc »

toyg wrote: post #99
viridian wrote: post #5

This is super cool, if a bit scary. Man Australia has it all though, 8/10 of the deadliest spiders, half the deadliest snakes, crocodiles, rockfish, and now firebirds. Inhabiting Australia is a testament to man's arrogance.

Meh. Thanks to the technological and cultural advancements of the Afro-Euro-Asian human cluster, we could wipe 99% of these “threats” tomorrow if we wanted to. In fact, we did have comparable dangers in other continents in the past - we just had no qualms with killing every single one of them or burning their ecosystem to the ground, because we had no concept of “ecosystem”: everything in nature was a threat to be de…

>Thanks to the technological and cultural advancements of the Afro-Euro-Asian human cluster, we could wipe 99% of these “threats” tomorrow if we wanted to.

We can be wiped out by some of the simplest lifeforms, and even simpler, not quite lifeforms on the planet.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#143

Post by fian »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #119
nkoren wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apes are demonstrably aware of the future: https://www.livescience.com/2620-humans-apes-plan.html And also demonstrably have a sense of morality: http://edition.cnn.com/2013/01/19/health/chimpanzee-fairness...

Yes, chimps dictators don’t fare well. That’s not what I meant. Chimps don’t have a complex set of morals about which they discuss and evolve with time. I didn’t say we know for sure what is good or what is not. But we can abstract the concepts and evolve our morals. Chimps will never get to debate about gay marriage or other “chimp” rights.

Never is a long time.

Were earlier human ancestors able to " abstract the concepts and evolve our morals"?

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#144

Post by drharby »

taneq wrote: post #7

So we're not the only: - tool-using animal - fire-using animal - language-using animal - animal which domesticates other animals - animal which builds complex structures Aha! I know! We're the only animal which continually comes up with reasons why we're special.

We landed on the moon and hurled a computer past our solar system whilst maintaining comm

Humanrace represent

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#145

Post by hnaccy »

dorfsmay wrote: post #115
rtpg wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet a little bit of it in the modern world is rationalization for eating and generally mistreating animals.

Which animal we morally can eat is a huge and difficult concept... In some cultures eating horse meat is normal, in others vegetarianism is the honourable goal. Have you ever asked yourself why you eat or why you don't eat some animals? It is typically a product of the culture we grew up in, rarely the product of an intentional thought process. Would you eat another human? What about another ape? An elephant? A monke…

>Which animal we morally can eat is a huge and difficult concept...

I'd say it's rather simple, the issue is most people are unwilling to make the sacrifices required to live morally.

Given their clear intelligence and ability to suffer the ease with which people deny that animals are moral beings is disgusting.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#146

Post by JackFr »

krapp wrote: post #103
meri_dian wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In each of those categories we're far and away the best. I really don't understand this feeling that humans need to be modest or that describing ourselves as special is wrong. We are special. I think among some people that are frustrated with the human world for whatever - either personal or abstract - reason, there's a feeling of misanthropy that colors their thinking, and so they try to belittle humanity.

>I really don't understand this feeling that humans need to be modest or that describing ourselves as special is wrong. We are special. To simply state that humans are best adapted at certain traits is true, but humans have tended to think of themselves as "special" in that "we're not even animals, but beings made in the image of God and given divine right to conquer Nature and do with it what we will." That anthropo…

> That anthropocentric bias has led to a multitude of evils

How about we're the only species which we hold to a moral standard? Unless you're going to hold other species to that standard, you have to admit that we're special.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#147

Post by joshuaheard »

acobster wrote: post #139

I took a basic falconry lesson with my dad last year. Besides being one of the coolest things I did all year, I got to learn all about the species we worked with: the Harris hawk. Native to the Southwest region of North America, they are of the only (the only?) raptors that strategize together and hunt in packs. Apparently if you introduce two groups who have never interacted before, they will play games and talk to…

I witnessed a Harris hawk attack a mockingbird in mid-flight outside my window once. It was brutal, blood and feathers sprayed everywhere, though the mockingbird managed to fly off with the hawk in hot pursuit. At first, I was like WTF!? Then I became curious. I identified the Harris hawk based on my brief sighting, and discovered that they were native to Texas, where I was living, and one of their main sources of prey is the mockingbird.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#148

Post by toyg »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #142
toyg wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. Thanks to the technological and cultural advancements of the Afro-Euro-Asian human cluster, we could wipe 99% of these “threats” tomorrow if we wanted to. In fact, we did have comparable dangers in other continents in the past - we just had no qualms with killing every single one of them or burning their ecosystem to the ground, because we had no concept of “ecosystem”: everything in nature was a threat to be de…

>Thanks to the technological and cultural advancements of the Afro-Euro-Asian human cluster, we could wipe 99% of these “threats” tomorrow if we wanted to. We can be wiped out by some of the simplest lifeforms, and even simpler, not quite lifeforms on the planet.

> We can be wiped out by some of the simplest lifeforms

And yet, we are not.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#149

Post by zopa »

mschuster91 wrote: post #84
coldcode wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cats are tool using as well: we are the tool.

We actually live in a symbiotic relationship with cats: we provide them with noms and warmth (and the cleaning of their litterboxes), they reward us with love. And the occasional thrown-off-the-table TV.

To be fair, many cats try very hard to reciprocate with food. It's not their fault we don't appreciate a nice fresh mouse.

Re: Intentional Fire-Spreading by “Firehawk” Raptors in Northern Australia

#150

Post by stupidcar »

krapp wrote: post #103
meri_dian wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In each of those categories we're far and away the best. I really don't understand this feeling that humans need to be modest or that describing ourselves as special is wrong. We are special. I think among some people that are frustrated with the human world for whatever - either personal or abstract - reason, there's a feeling of misanthropy that colors their thinking, and so they try to belittle humanity.

>I really don't understand this feeling that humans need to be modest or that describing ourselves as special is wrong. We are special. To simply state that humans are best adapted at certain traits is true, but humans have tended to think of themselves as "special" in that "we're not even animals, but beings made in the image of God and given divine right to conquer Nature and do with it what we will." That anthropo…

But the opposite view could just as easily be used as a justification: I.e. "We're just animals, no different from any other. So anything we do is a part of nature, and we shouldn't second guess it, any more than any other animal would second guess its instincts."

I think we need to recognise that we are, at least, unique. And that we have a unique ability to affect the world, for good or ill, that sets us apart from other animals. That shouldn't be an excuse for hubris, but it should be reflected in how we view ourselves as a species.

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