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Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

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Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#31

Post by Fnoord »

ahartmetz wrote: post #24
gaius wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place Come on, we can do better here than the tired old “not real communism” argument. it just means that we didn't have the right data, or perhaps we need a new analysis Ah yes, always followed by “it will be different next time”. How many millions more have to die?

I think it's fair to call all attempts so far "not reall communism". But you don't have to conclude "real communism would work". You can also conclude "real communism seems unimplementable". It is, after all, a social order that was created purely on paper and from theoretical arguments, which is ridiculous. That activity gives you something to try, but certainly not a fixed solution that you just need to implement a…

Its a typical low blow, akin to throwing all right-wing under the guise of Franco, the Weimar republic, or some other right-wing system. Communism has been implemented on small scale. One notable example in Spain [1], problem is that any large political system eventually turns out to be either authoritarian or ineffective or sabotaged (I leave the guess by whom as an exercise to the reader). Its also been applied in part in West-Europe as well as USA, just not in full.

Capitalism is a race to the bottom where the poor countries in the world are being put under the thumb. You don't have to look very far. Just look at all the CIA ops the USA has conducted in the 20th century, e.g. Allende.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_in_Spain#1936_Revolu...

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#32

Post by [deleted] »

icc97 wrote: post #27
narrator wrote: post #11

Except for the Singularity trashing, this talk feels like a rehash of reading your average Reddit political thread. I really wanted more than that. I think the political left viewed dialectical materialism as their futurism and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom. They can't see the fut…

His discussion of corporations being actual, literal AIs in the mould of the Chinese Room [0] I found fascinating. He jokes in the Q&A that he wants an app that finds the 3% of the sociopaths out there. I like the connection to the Book / film The Corporation [1], that labels all corporations as psychopaths. So you don't need an app to find them. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room [1]: http://thecorporat…

[deleted]

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#33

Post by kpdxxx »

gaius wrote: post #21
fao_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. The thing is, communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place, and the most advanced countries (Sweden, Norway, etc.) are all putting in place a mixed socialist/capitalist system. Also, dialectical materialism didn't necessarily fail just because a set of predictions were made with it didn't come true, it just means that we didn't have…

communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place Come on, we can do better here than the tired old “not real communism” argument. it just means that we didn't have the right data, or perhaps we need a new analysis Ah yes, always followed by “it will be different next time”. How many millions more have to die?

Hackernews again at it with the hottest takes. How many millions more have to die in the name of capitalism?

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#34

Post by narrator »

Yokohiii wrote: post #23
narrator wrote: post #11

Except for the Singularity trashing, this talk feels like a rehash of reading your average Reddit political thread. I really wanted more than that. I think the political left viewed dialectical materialism as their futurism and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom. They can't see the fut…

What you describe is opportunism. Watch star trek for a positive take on our future. If you watched the Q&A at the end you will know that this is just Stross' way to tell stories and he is interested in a better future. But it is on humans interested in morals rather than cash flow.

The latest Star Trek Discovery is not a very happy place. It's almost dystopian. This creeping pessimism even got to the Star Trek writers!

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#35

Post by LV-426 »

gaius wrote: post #21
fao_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. The thing is, communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place, and the most advanced countries (Sweden, Norway, etc.) are all putting in place a mixed socialist/capitalist system. Also, dialectical materialism didn't necessarily fail just because a set of predictions were made with it didn't come true, it just means that we didn't have…

communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place Come on, we can do better here than the tired old “not real communism” argument. it just means that we didn't have the right data, or perhaps we need a new analysis Ah yes, always followed by “it will be different next time”. How many millions more have to die?

Millions fewer than died under centuries of global slavery and imperialism, which I'm sure you're not going to now claim is "not real capitalism".

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#36

Post by pjc50 »

narrator wrote: post #11

Except for the Singularity trashing, this talk feels like a rehash of reading your average Reddit political thread. I really wanted more than that. I think the political left viewed dialectical materialism as their futurism and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom. They can't see the fut…

> Their government and their society has a positive view of the future that they are implementing.

Their government certainly has a view. The population has to accept that view, because it's not a free country and the scope for dissent from that view is limited. If you're someone who actually prefers to live in a traditional building rather than the new apartment complex? Tough, the bulldozers are at the door. Unimpressed with the unbreathable air of Beijing? Tough, although that is gradually improving. Tibetan? Tough. Uighur? No, she went of her own accord.

> The west has little in the way of a positive view of the future.

We used to, but I think the the moon landings were the high point. Then we started to realise the downsides.

> just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom.

First three of those were staples of my childhood. You left out nuclear war doom, the hole in the ozone layer, acid rain, terrorism, and Y2K; but those have actually been mitigated by lengthy efforts. Sometimes doom-mongering actually gets things fixed.

But really we're back to Gibson's "The future is already here — it's just not very evenly distributed". The key question for any kind of left is whether and how the future gets distributed. Otherwise you get a tiny aristocracy with eternal life and pet AIs to run their security system that keeps the 99% out.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#37

Post by Yokohiii »

narrator wrote: post #34
Yokohiii wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe is opportunism. Watch star trek for a positive take on our future. If you watched the Q&A at the end you will know that this is just Stross' way to tell stories and he is interested in a better future. But it is on humans interested in morals rather than cash flow.

The latest Star Trek Discovery is not a very happy place. It's almost dystopian. This creeping pessimism even got to the Star Trek writers!

Fair point. Should have said last century star trek.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#38

Post by digi_owl »

pjc50 wrote: post #36
narrator wrote: post #11

Except for the Singularity trashing, this talk feels like a rehash of reading your average Reddit political thread. I really wanted more than that. I think the political left viewed dialectical materialism as their futurism and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom. They can't see the fut…

> Their government and their society has a positive view of the future that they are implementing. Their government certainly has a view. The population has to accept that view, because it's not a free country and the scope for dissent from that view is limited. If you're someone who actually prefers to live in a traditional building rather than the new apartment complex? Tough, the bulldozers are at the door. Unimpr…

Soylent Green comes to mind...

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#39

Post by avian »

sneak wrote: post #15

Great author; sadly another terrible keynote choice by the CCC.

Care to elaborate? I think the talk was on topic and a suitable kick-off for the rest of the congress. I found Stross' perspective on predicting the future and AI novel and interesting.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#40

Post by gaius »

narrator wrote: post #34
Yokohiii wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe is opportunism. Watch star trek for a positive take on our future. If you watched the Q&A at the end you will know that this is just Stross' way to tell stories and he is interested in a better future. But it is on humans interested in morals rather than cash flow.

The latest Star Trek Discovery is not a very happy place. It's almost dystopian. This creeping pessimism even got to the Star Trek writers!

Star Trek Discovery

Not real Star Trek... none of the Jar Jar-verse is...

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