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Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

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Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#21

Post by gaius »

fao_ wrote: post #16
narrator wrote: post #11

Except for the Singularity trashing, this talk feels like a rehash of reading your average Reddit political thread. I really wanted more than that. I think the political left viewed dialectical materialism as their futurism and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom. They can't see the fut…

> and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. The thing is, communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place, and the most advanced countries (Sweden, Norway, etc.) are all putting in place a mixed socialist/capitalist system. Also, dialectical materialism didn't necessarily fail just because a set of predictions were made with it didn't come true, it just means that we didn't have…

communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place

Come on, we can do better here than the tired old “not real communism” argument.

it just means that we didn't have the right data, or perhaps we need a new analysis

Ah yes, always followed by “it will be different next time”. How many millions more have to die?

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#22

Post by ThomPete »

narrator wrote: post #11

Except for the Singularity trashing, this talk feels like a rehash of reading your average Reddit political thread. I really wanted more than that. I think the political left viewed dialectical materialism as their futurism and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom. They can't see the fut…

IMO The Chinese rose so quickly because they embraced capitalism and got access to the western markets.

Other than that I agree with your post.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#23

Post by Yokohiii »

narrator wrote: post #11

Except for the Singularity trashing, this talk feels like a rehash of reading your average Reddit political thread. I really wanted more than that. I think the political left viewed dialectical materialism as their futurism and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom. They can't see the fut…

What you describe is opportunism. Watch star trek for a positive take on our future.

If you watched the Q&A at the end you will know that this is just Stross' way to tell stories and he is interested in a better future. But it is on humans interested in morals rather than cash flow.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#24

Post by ahartmetz »

gaius wrote: post #21
fao_ wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. The thing is, communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place, and the most advanced countries (Sweden, Norway, etc.) are all putting in place a mixed socialist/capitalist system. Also, dialectical materialism didn't necessarily fail just because a set of predictions were made with it didn't come true, it just means that we didn't have…

communism didn't really exist to fall in the first place Come on, we can do better here than the tired old “not real communism” argument. it just means that we didn't have the right data, or perhaps we need a new analysis Ah yes, always followed by “it will be different next time”. How many millions more have to die?

I think it's fair to call all attempts so far "not reall communism". But you don't have to conclude "real communism would work". You can also conclude "real communism seems unimplementable". It is, after all, a social order that was created purely on paper and from theoretical arguments, which is ridiculous. That activity gives you something to try, but certainly not a fixed solution that you just need to implement as prescribed.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#26

Post by lowglow »

(My comment will get buried because I'm flagged but whatever)

I had drinks with a bunch of Hugo award winners and candidates a couple of years back (2015?) and we started talking about near-future stuff. Mainly that I was looking for more of it. (Diamond Age fans out there?)

A funny thing came up: It's getting harder and harder to predict near-future stuff for some authors. I don't understand why. Is it that technology is becoming more and more obscured from the requirements of interacting with it?

Once upon a time, a person had to divine the landscape of network protocols and unix command line to understand the mystery of the internet. Nowadays that tech is just one click or swipe away -- perhaps there is less imagination required to figure out what's happening behind the scene, or perhaps no imagination is required anymore -- things just are.

Maybe we're just inundated with the next big trivial far future click-bait article that the future seems... well always right around the corner and less futur-y(?).

Or perhaps we're at the precipice of something entirely new and incomprehensible. I run a decentralized AI startup and we have an exercise where we try to imagine a world with particular capabilities but it (for a large part of my peers) seems out of reach -- as if it exists beyond a great divide.

It makes me think that whatever is next is either really beyond the scope of understanding, or just non-existent. It's fun (and exciting) to try and think about regardless.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#27

Post by icc97 »

narrator wrote: post #11

Except for the Singularity trashing, this talk feels like a rehash of reading your average Reddit political thread. I really wanted more than that. I think the political left viewed dialectical materialism as their futurism and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom. They can't see the fut…

His discussion of corporations being actual, literal AIs in the mould of the Chinese Room [0] I found fascinating.

He jokes in the Q&A that he wants an app that finds the 3% of the sociopaths out there. I like the connection to the Book / film The Corporation [1], that labels all corporations as psychopaths. So you don't need an app to find them.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room

[1]: http://thecorporation.com/

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#28

Post by JSONwebtoken »

ThomPete wrote: post #22
narrator wrote: post #11

Except for the Singularity trashing, this talk feels like a rehash of reading your average Reddit political thread. I really wanted more than that. I think the political left viewed dialectical materialism as their futurism and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom. They can't see the fut…

IMO The Chinese rose so quickly because they embraced capitalism and got access to the western markets. Other than that I agree with your post.

They also benefit from a healthy trade surplus thanks to Globalization boosting their manufacturing and labor exports while getting away with being highly protectionist when it comes to domestic production.

Their authoritarian government is nimble and decisive when it comes to implementing policy and they have no loyalty to any one economic or political philosophy. The Chinese are just really good at playing the game, the rest of the world is years behind.

Re: Dude, You Broke the Future [video]

#29

Post by digi_owl »

icc97 wrote: post #27
narrator wrote: post #11

Except for the Singularity trashing, this talk feels like a rehash of reading your average Reddit political thread. I really wanted more than that. I think the political left viewed dialectical materialism as their futurism and now that that's gone with the fall of communism there's just doom. Global warming doom. Hyper-capitalism doom. Race war doom. Overpopulation doom. Evil AI overlord doom. They can't see the fut…

His discussion of corporations being actual, literal AIs in the mould of the Chinese Room [0] I found fascinating. He jokes in the Q&A that he wants an app that finds the 3% of the sociopaths out there. I like the connection to the Book / film The Corporation [1], that labels all corporations as psychopaths. So you don't need an app to find them. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room [1]: http://thecorporat…

I have read the claim that you will find more sociopaths in executive chairs than you will find in jails.

Also all this talk about corporations as paperclip AIs gets me thinking about one of the sub-plots of Accelerando. Meaning that it is likely not a new idea for Stross.

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