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World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

theguardian.com

261–270 of 284 posts

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#261
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US "poverty" now includes access to netflix. Poverty has absolutely gotten better in the US over the years.

US poverty isn't some controversial idea to be scare-quoted and dismissed as no big deal. 1 in 6 of our kids don't have enough to eat. Sheesh.

Actually, about 1 percent of children in the United States suffer from chronic malnutrition. And malnutrition occurs in people who are either undernourished or overnourished. In the United States, more children suffer from malnutrition due to dietary imbalances than due to nutritional deficiencies.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/adu...

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that the growth is not there. But the sharing the growth corresponding to people's contribution. Do the super rich really should enjoy the wealth? Are those really justified? Do their employees has done proportionally smaller amount of contribution to only entitle to that much less wealth in salary?

Wealth != salary. Most wealthy people who got wealthy didn't get there by making a large salary, they (at some point) booked capital gains on something. Nothing is stopping you from venturing out into the world and setting up a business, and making your way into the 1%. Most work is commodity work. And in a lot of cases, you have a significant amount of people who can solve a problem. This results in a race to the bo…

> Nothing is stopping you from venturing out into the world and setting up a business, and making your way into the 1%.

Well, that's the issue we were discussing: Is there a system that can move the society in a rate that is at least as good as what we have now, but at the same time does not result into the 0.1% problem.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#263
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd say the higher in the social rank, they ratio of contribution to taking drops exponentially, not linearly. You mean the richer people are, the ratio of their contribution to taking grows? That does not seem possible, because that will not make the person rich in the first place.

They're rich in the first place because they've contributed more to society than other people.

Sure, I have no doubt that they contribute more than others.

But the problem is the ratio of their taking far outpace the contribution.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#264
post #250
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty also includes having your neighborhood torn apart by junkies on opioids. But I guess actually looking at the econometric data to compare apples to apples isn't worthwhile because you can stay indoors while your tires are stolen and watch Jessica Jones, so things are better than they used to be, right?

Yes things are better than they used to be. People living in bad neighborhoods spending time and money on entertainment need to prioritize better.

Companies spend billions of dollars in emotionally manipulative marketing campaigns in order to convince them not to prioritize better.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#265
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes on capital gains are harmful and don't make sense. It would be more efficient to tax consumption and have no capital, estate, income, or corporate taxes. Scott Sumner has written many excellent articles about taxes on capital gains: - http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2017/07/do_you_really_w.... - http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2014/04/theres_only_one.... - http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/09/our…

Do you realize that taxing only consumption means taxing the poor a lot, and the wealthy almost nothing?

Who ultimately pays a tax burden does not depend on who sends the check to the government; it depends on the relative elasticities of supply and demand. The tax paid by people, wealthy or not, comes either out of consumption or investment. When people consume goods and services, the labor and materials used to produce them cannot be allocated to produce goods and services for other people. The same is not true of investment, which is why you want to tax consumption and not investment.

If the government taxed 90% of Warren Buffett's wealth, Warren Buffett wouldn't consume less, he would just have less investments. The government would have more money, but if it spent the money on giving food to the poor, the food would have to come from somewhere, and it wouldn't be from Warren Buffett whose consumption was already modest. If the tax doesn't reduce your consumption, someone else is paying the tax, not you. Taxing 90% of Warren Buffett's wealth and spending it on welfare programs wouldn't make the poor better off, it would mainly make capital markets less efficient (which would make everyone, including the poor, worse off).

Capital income does make Warren Buffett richer if he makes wise investment decisions that make markets more efficient, but as long as he doesn't consume the gains it changes nothing, and as soon as he or his heirs consume the gains they would be taxed by a consumption tax.

Income taxes have the same issues as wealth taxes, so you want to tax only consumption. And a tax on estate is just an additional tax on future consumption by heirs. It makes no sense to tax future consumption at different rates than current consumption, so it's better to just increase the consumption tax than to add an estate tax.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US poverty isn't some controversial idea to be scare-quoted and dismissed as no big deal. 1 in 6 of our kids don't have enough to eat. Sheesh.

Actually, about 1 percent of children in the United States suffer from chronic malnutrition. And malnutrition occurs in people who are either undernourished or overnourished. In the United States, more children suffer from malnutrition due to dietary imbalances than due to nutritional deficiencies. https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/healthlibrary/conditions/adu...

The 1 in 6 figure is for "food insecurity." I'm sure "chronic malnutrition" is a worse condition.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#267
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest issue with any sort of basic income is that landlords and grocery store owners will just ever-increase their prices. How do we combat that?

Competition.

:) where is the competition in SF to stop landlords from ever increasing rents?

Thought experiment: If we redistributed all the liquid capital that currently exists, one year later the people who own infrastructure will end up the 1% again.

You can see this through some basic economics. People have more money, they are willing to spend more money. Meanwhile, supply remains constant. What happens? Prices go up.

Everyone has to eat, everyone has to buy medicine, everyone needs to sleep, everyone needs the internet. Everyone “needs” to gamble. The people who own that infrastructure would be the richest again.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest issue with any sort of basic income is that landlords and grocery store owners will just ever-increase their prices. How do we combat that?

Since big city landlords are no longer in an exclusive position to sell the ability to make a living, I would expect rents to crater as people can move without so much concern for commutable jobs.

I don’t know about you but myself and the people I know love the city cuz of convenience, social reasons, and jobs.

Even today I could spend 3x less on rent if I moved and endured a 30min commute. I don’t. Having a job is not the primary priority for why I’m paying high rent.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest issue with any sort of basic income is that landlords and grocery store owners will just ever-increase their prices. How do we combat that?

When people have the economic security from a UBI not to have to worry about job security, they can more easily take a stand against bosses/landlords through collective organising efforts. Basically, the UBI can act as a strike fund, giving workers/tenants/etc. more power in the class struggle.

Sure thought experiment:

They have more power. Let’s say they get what they want. Double the working conditions and double the wage.

Now what?

Everyone needs to eat, needs to sleep. Ok let’s raise the prices. They can afford it. I.e they can no longer afford it.

Meanwhile, since food costs more so farmland costs more. Increasing barriers to entry.

So they strike and ... the cycle continues.

Basically, goods with the highest price elasticity of demand win. And they win by leaps and bounds.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people have the economic security from a UBI not to have to worry about job security, they can more easily take a stand against bosses/landlords through collective organising efforts. Basically, the UBI can act as a strike fund, giving workers/tenants/etc. more power in the class struggle.

Sure thought experiment: They have more power. Let’s say they get what they want. Double the working conditions and double the wage. Now what? Everyone needs to eat, needs to sleep. Ok let’s raise the prices. They can afford it. I.e they can no longer afford it. Meanwhile, since food costs more so farmland costs more. Increasing barriers to entry. So they strike and ... the cycle continues. Basically, goods with the…

Thinking about this more:

We would first need to correct the monopolistic behaviors by corporations which is currently being encouraged by the US government. Then UBI would work.

OR

We could do a daily proportional wealth redistribution (i.e. UBI based on a percentage of total wealth, including assets, rather than a static number - and we could do this at a daily cadence). This system would hurt corporations which have goods of lower price elasticity of demand, but at least it would be good for individuals.

OR

We could have it as state run/sponsored, i.e. the government runs farms and sells food, or companies run food production and sales, but the government pays for it. This has quality concerns, especially when it comes to regional distribution. But hopefully, like the US schooling system, maybe a combination of both government run, and government sponsored (i.e. charter school), and privately run (i.e. for the ultra wealthy), would create a healthy enough environment. Ideally, since this doesn't depend on the quality of local teachers (i.e. food doesn't care if it is getting re-allocated to rural Arkansas), it would work out better than the US schooling system. Note: This doesn't work as well for housing.

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