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World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

theguardian.com

91–100 of 284 posts

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#91
post #73

There was an interesting study posted (I believe here) on how a flat 10% re-distribution (10% taxed from everyone, then redistributed evenly across everyone, aka basic income), created a more stable "society" in simulation. It did this by helping support a larger "middle class". Does anyone know the link/can point me to the study? Google is failing me at the moment...

With UBI everyone will have more money but overall production would drop which is the only meaningful way to improve peoples lives. So people would be worse off because prices would adjust to the decreased supply and the increased demand of goods and services.

If by production you mean GDP, it's not as simple as that. Increasing production is not the only meaningful way to improve peoples lives.

GDP is a very rough indicator for a society's standard of living and well being. GDP is really bad at measuring things like health, household productivity, technology changes, education, leisure, environment, etc - all which may not show up in GDP.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#92

There was an interesting study posted (I believe here) on how a flat 10% re-distribution (10% taxed from everyone, then redistributed evenly across everyone, aka basic income), created a more stable "society" in simulation. It did this by helping support a larger "middle class". Does anyone know the link/can point me to the study? Google is failing me at the moment...

The biggest issue with any sort of basic income is that landlords and grocery store owners will just ever-increase their prices.

How do we combat that?

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to say I disagree because I do think the wealthiest should contribute meaningfully to society. But when you say "without visible contributions to society." why should an extremely wealthy person have to contribute to society?

Why should anyone have to contribute to society? Because they benefit from it.

That's a good point - the wealthiest are wealthy because they rely on the economy to continue functioning.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#94
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The central idea of capitalism is the extraction of surplus value via property relations and wage labor. Voluntary exchange is not capitalism. Voluntary exchange has existed since the dawn of society. Capitalism is a form of production that developed with the industrial revolution. I can't tell if you've fallen for or are employing a sleazy equivocation.

I've always found this idea that capitalism was "invented" to be so strange. e.g. When an ancient king had land, and let poor people work the land in exchange for a part of their production, what would you call that? Sure sounds like, "the extraction of surplus value via property relations and wage labor" to me. Same story if the lord has a mill and charges people to use it. Or a bridge and charges people to cross it…

> When an ancient king had land, and let poor people work the land in exchange for a part of their production, what would you call that? Sure sounds like, "the extraction of surplus value via property relations and wage labor" to me.

There is an extent to which it is true (well, the first part, not wage labor!), but it's a different set of property realtions than the ones which are the defining feature of capitalism.

> Same story if the lord has a mill and charges people to use it. Or a bridge and charges people to cross it. Technology was worse, so there weren't as many physical forms of capital, but it definitely existed.

Feudalism is also a system by which value is extracted by property relationships; a different set than capitalism, and (while some quantity of wage labor may exist within feudalism) not one where wage labor plays a central role.

Capitalism replaced the system of property relations underlying feudalism with a different set.

> Some people seem to have this need to see capitalism as this invention created by bad people.

Traditionally, that's not even how the socialist critics that first identified it viewed it; it wasn't “an invention created by bad people”, but the state resulting from a number of related changes to the model of property driven by a combination of opportunity created by physical and other social technologies and self-interested people seeking their own gain. (This isn't inherently bad, the same people saw socialism the same way, though they saw the class driving and benefiting the preservation of capitalism against further change as narrow and inherently narrowing with the continuance of capitalism.)

I'm not really sure, then, what people you are referring to, since neither capitalism's defenders nor it's main critics hold the view you are attacking.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich people tend to have most of their worth in stock. In theory, assuming your stock got more expensive, you get richer without anyone in particular getting poorer.

Inflation = everyone in cash got poorer

Not if you have bitcoins, right?

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is simple to understand: as population grows and technology grows even faster, there should be a steady stream of wealth increase. This has been observed as is obvious to everyone. However, if we allow the bulk of this wealth to be controlled by a tiny part of the population, we are creating a huge problem to current and to future generations. A hereditary oligarchy can be terrible to our civilization, and…

Not to say I disagree because I do think the wealthiest should contribute meaningfully to society. But when you say "without visible contributions to society." why should an extremely wealthy person have to contribute to society?

[deleted]

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#97
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It matters to me personally that a small group of people have such a massive amount of power. It's already completely uneven regarding voting power - I can vote once in an election, but if I had a trillion dollars I could vote once, and then I could pay lobbyists, and fund advertisements, etc. I, as a single person or small group, with a trillion dollars, can have a massive influence. This is regardless of how poor a…

Katy Perry has a massive amount of political power compared to you as well. How should we handle her and other celebrities? How about unions and union bosses? News media heads? If we're going to be fair, shouldn't we control anyone at all who has influence?

For purely practical reasons, we should make efforts to disperse power within society away from severe concentrations. Not uniformly, not absolutely, but we should work to keep the trend from becoming too strong in the direction of concentrated power. Otherwise, the vast masses are liable to suffer and experience reduced capacity to alleviate that suffering. See: All of human history

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who do not contribute to society are what we call parasites. Just because your father or grand-grand-father did something useful to the world doesn't justify that you have to live like a king. Modern society destroyed the old feudal order exactly to avoid this kind of social injustice.

I completely agree that the richest should contribute to society, especially as someone in the middle class. However, let's pretend I was born into the wealthiest class. If I inherit a business, that business provides jobs (ie. wages) for people, and is a functioning part of the economic system. Does that mean I am not contributing? Regardless of how rich I am, I still need to eat and live and put clothes on my back.…

If you offshore your profits and workers, avoid taxes, and the usual bag of tricks?

Yes, parasite, and what happens to parasites which are too successful?

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#99
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The riches they amass come from exploiting the people. Its not something that should be taken lightly.

Did Bill Gates exploit you? Please explain how.

His wealth came from siphoning off profits from his employees and charging exorbitant prices for his products. The monopoly microsoft held was used to strangle smaller companies out of the market. None of these actions were directly targeted at me but the world is much larger than you or I.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#100
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The riches they amass come from exploiting the people. Its not something that should be taken lightly.

Did Bill Gates exploit you? Please explain how.

Yes

He used his power to push shitty and proprietary software into my industry, thus limiting the impact that properly developed software could have created. I had no choice in this and he used everything from back-room deals to flat out lies to achieve this.

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