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World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

theguardian.com

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Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#181

Post by oblio »

adventured wrote: post #147
volgo wrote: post #126

As capitalism matures, it's clear to anyone with a thread of financial literacy that most wealth is created through capital gains rather than salary. We're approaching a state (at least in developed countries) where productivity is so high, that you can literally park your money in 500 of the biggest businesses and you're almost guaranteed a 7% annual return (if you hold stocks for the long term). Using the commonly…

> it's clear to anyone with a thread of financial literacy That's argument from intimidation and not a valid form of argumentation. > In effect, late stage capitalism becomes the anti-thesis of the spirit of capitalism - devoid of competition, free innovation, and upward mobility Fortunately the world isn't in late stage Capitalism, because there is no such thing. As one obvious example, China has only begun to emerg…

All awesome and great for people working in IT. Key questions:

1. How many people worked in the old companies and how many work in the new ones?

2. How many non-IT people work in the new companies?

If both answers are what I expect them to be, they point to a huge social problem somewhere along the line.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#182

Post by tensor »

adventured wrote: post #147
volgo wrote: post #126

As capitalism matures, it's clear to anyone with a thread of financial literacy that most wealth is created through capital gains rather than salary. We're approaching a state (at least in developed countries) where productivity is so high, that you can literally park your money in 500 of the biggest businesses and you're almost guaranteed a 7% annual return (if you hold stocks for the long term). Using the commonly…

> it's clear to anyone with a thread of financial literacy That's argument from intimidation and not a valid form of argumentation. > In effect, late stage capitalism becomes the anti-thesis of the spirit of capitalism - devoid of competition, free innovation, and upward mobility Fortunately the world isn't in late stage Capitalism, because there is no such thing. As one obvious example, China has only begun to emerg…

>In the US, more people are moving up and out of the middle class, than are moving down and out of it. That has been the consistent trend for 50, 30, 15, 10 years.

You're going to need to provide a citation for this statement.

As for the rest, how many people are getting wealthy from these companies? Largely the same people who were getting wealthy from previous generations, and a few lucky individuals who managed to gain entrance into the elite class. But really, it's the VCs making all the money here. The same sort of "already wealthy" people who have been making most of the money for the past several decades.

On your examples, they are extreme hyperbole. GE dying? Their revenue is 123 billion and have over a _quarter million_ employees. They span everything from aviation to healthcare to things like lightbulbs. Presumably you think Tesla is killing them or something? They are at 7 billion revenue and only 33 thousand employees. In automobiles GE has already simply bought self driving and electric car technology and by the time it's mainstream all their cars will have it. Tesla is amazing, but giants like GE have so much wealth they won't be going anywhere that easily, which is part of the point.

Ditto for the taxi industry. Dying? They seem to be everywhere still meanwhile Uber and Lyft are getting more and more regulated, or outright banned in some countries and cities. No, the end game isn't the death of taxies here, it's simply a change in the industry. Taxi companies will need to become more like uber and lyft, meanwhile uber and lyft will be regulated to the point where they are little different than taxis. Self driving cars might change the game, but by the time they are normal lots can change.

Most of your examples are not example of fundamental change, but rather simply the same rich people changing technology. Cable didn't die, it became netflix, hulu, amazon, disney, etc. Channels become streaming companies. Ads become product placements and internet ads. Same old stuff in new clothes, with the same cast of people running the show.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#183

Post by oblio »

valuearb wrote: post #176
coliveira wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is simple to understand: as population grows and technology grows even faster, there should be a steady stream of wealth increase. This has been observed as is obvious to everyone. However, if we allow the bulk of this wealth to be controlled by a tiny part of the population, we are creating a huge problem to current and to future generations. A hereditary oligarchy can be terrible to our civilization, and…

You have offered no evidence for any of your assertions for the ill effects. When Elon Musk becomes obscenely wealthy by creating affordable electric cars and space flight, everyone else gets the benefits of affordable electric cars and space flight. Not talking trips to mars, but constellations of satellites offering super cheap worldwide internet.

For every Musk how many Kochs are out there?

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#184

Post by closeparen »

aalleavitch wrote: post #68
twoodfin wrote: post #2

This article provides paragraph after paragraph of supporting data that the richest have gotten richer, but none that I can see supporting its claim that “billions of poorer people across the world have seen their wealth standstill or decline”.

Wages have stagnated and the poor are not seeing an equivalent increase in their wealth. Moreover, while the jobs numbers are very high 94% of all jobs added in the last decade have been temp/contract work/self-employment. https://hbr.org/2017/10/why-wages-arent-growing-in-america https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/8/8/16112368/pi... https://qz.com/851066/almost-all-the-10-million-jobs-created...

We set up an incentive scheme to vigorously punish employers for offering full time work by loading it down with obligations over the worker’s long term well being, and didn’t do anything similar for temp/contract work. What were you expecting?

If we attached proportional responsibility to part time work, or just provided benefits out of the public purse instead of labor law, part time work wouldn’t be such an obviously superior choice to employers.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#185

Post by regulation_d »

volgo wrote: post #126

As capitalism matures, it's clear to anyone with a thread of financial literacy that most wealth is created through capital gains rather than salary. We're approaching a state (at least in developed countries) where productivity is so high, that you can literally park your money in 500 of the biggest businesses and you're almost guaranteed a 7% annual return (if you hold stocks for the long term). Using the commonly…

In principle, I agree with you. But setting the capital gains rate is a bit of a balancing act. If the rate is too high, then this disincentivizes people from putting their money in the market, which is also not what we want.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#186

Post by ABCLAW »

oreo81 wrote: post #123
aalleavitch wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true for worldwide poverty. This is not true for US poverty.

In the US "poverty" now includes access to netflix. Poverty has absolutely gotten better in the US over the years.

Poverty also includes having your neighborhood torn apart by junkies on opioids.

But I guess actually looking at the econometric data to compare apples to apples isn't worthwhile because you can stay indoors while your tires are stolen and watch Jessica Jones, so things are better than they used to be, right?

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#187

Post by oblio »

hueving wrote: post #158
coliveira wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The indication you're searching for is called wealth inequality. It is a measure of how much more money the richest people have compared to the rest of the population, and it has increased significantly over the years: http://fortune.com/2014/10/31/inequality-wealth-income-us/ There is an economist called Thomas Piketty who has made his name by studying and measuring inequality over the years. Read his book and you w…

Can you explain why wealth inequality is bad? If me and the rest the million other people in my city have $100,000, some billionaire in a city somewhere else making another 100 million doesn't really have any impact on me directly. Yet it increases this inequality metric and I'm supposed to be outraged. If the billionaire was using this position to corner the real estate market I'm trying to buy a house in, then I mi…

Because democracy stops working when inequality is too great. Regulatory capture and all that.

It's waaaaay harder for you to organize and mobilize your 1000 buddies than it is for 1 billionaire to decide he wants to do something you don't want, such as lobbying politicians to give him a tax break, for example.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#188

Post by eeZah7Ux »

notyourwork wrote: post #3
twoodfin wrote: post #2

This article provides paragraph after paragraph of supporting data that the richest have gotten richer, but none that I can see supporting its claim that “billions of poorer people across the world have seen their wealth standstill or decline”.

Is it possible for everyone’s wealth to increase? I think they might be assuming this is not possible and there if richest wealth increases by this much it had to come from the rest?

> Is it possible for everyone’s wealth to increase?

Numerically, yes. Psychologically and socially it's completely different.

As inequality rises, people whose wealth increases more slowly are effectively poorer in relative terms.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#189

Post by closeparen »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #92
aerophilic wrote: post #54

There was an interesting study posted (I believe here) on how a flat 10% re-distribution (10% taxed from everyone, then redistributed evenly across everyone, aka basic income), created a more stable "society" in simulation. It did this by helping support a larger "middle class". Does anyone know the link/can point me to the study? Google is failing me at the moment...

The biggest issue with any sort of basic income is that landlords and grocery store owners will just ever-increase their prices. How do we combat that?

Since big city landlords are no longer in an exclusive position to sell the ability to make a living, I would expect rents to crater as people can move without so much concern for commutable jobs.

Re: World's richest 500 see their wealth increase by $1T this year

#190

Post by valuearb »

oblio wrote: post #183
valuearb wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have offered no evidence for any of your assertions for the ill effects. When Elon Musk becomes obscenely wealthy by creating affordable electric cars and space flight, everyone else gets the benefits of affordable electric cars and space flight. Not talking trips to mars, but constellations of satellites offering super cheap worldwide internet.

For every Musk how many Kochs are out there?

Because of the Koch family everyone's standard of living increased significantly over the last 100 years because gasoline was produced more cheaply.

What the Koch's spent their money on is an entirely different issue.

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