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Shanghai sets population at 25M

theguardian.com

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Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#221

Post by xmly »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #73
thedailymail wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As skeptical as I am about predictions on the imminent demise of the Chinese economy (which occur regularly going back at least to Gordon Chang), I'm intrigued to see what an experienced documentary maker like Alex Gibney will add to the discussion. Thanks for posting the link!

In the media, it has been just been Gordon Chang. But China is due for a normal bubble crash, which occur quite frequently in normal economies, but who knows when that will happen. Pro-china people will always interpret crash as collapse to create a red herring against anyone who isn’t bullish on the Chinese economy. Likewise via the opposite for anti-china people. It makes any discussion basically a red herring figh…

Trust, human is the biggest bubble in the history of earth. We all gonna die in another million year.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#223

Post by xmly »

volgo wrote: post #58

The problem they're trying to solve is city slums, which is common in Asia. I've worked in India before, and every major city (Delhi, Chennai) is filled with massive slums of migrant workers who obviously haven't kept up with the modern development. Without turning this into a pity post and sounding like an uncultured asshole, it was horrifying to see and really broke my heart that people are living in conditions lik…

Slum is a relative concept. In the eyes of Upper east of NYC, all the other places in NYC are slums! So after getting rid of all the slums, guess what? Some part of upper east thinks other parts of upper east are slums!

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#224

Post by gaadd33 »

mstaoru wrote: post #220
gaadd33 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did China get rid of the hukou system? Otherwise wouldn't people still need documents to go and stay in their capital? You should update the wikipedia page if it's been repealed everywhere, the current page just says that small cities have had restrictions abolished but large cities are still under tight control.

Most foreign people tend to overestimate the impact of hukou on normal daily life. You don't need it for anything, except things like getting your kids into free public school. You can totally go to another city, find a job, rent a room and work, save money, get a mortgage, buy an apartment, marry, have kids, put them in a paid public school and generally live your life.

Oh interesting, reading the wikipedia page made it seem like a person was a second class citizen similar to being black in South Africa under apartheid; with no right to vote or buy property.

It's surprising and interesting to learn that China has total internal freedom of movement, something that the USSR and similar countries never embraced.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#225

Post by seanmcdirmid »

xmly wrote: post #221
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the media, it has been just been Gordon Chang. But China is due for a normal bubble crash, which occur quite frequently in normal economies, but who knows when that will happen. Pro-china people will always interpret crash as collapse to create a red herring against anyone who isn’t bullish on the Chinese economy. Likewise via the opposite for anti-china people. It makes any discussion basically a red herring figh…

Trust, human is the biggest bubble in the history of earth. We all gonna die in another million year.

The biggest bubble is the Big Bang of course. That bubble will eventually collapse and it will be the end of everything (really!).

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#226

Post by smnrchrds »

delecti wrote: post #94
peteretep wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was 8.3m 100 years ago, and it's 9.1m now.

There were a couple notable wars in that time though.

The first world war barely registers on the graph. The second world war shows a small decrease in population. But the largest decrease is seen in the 70s and 80s. I have no idea why. But see the data for yourself:

https://data.london.gov.uk/dataset/population-change-1939-20...

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#227

Post by jjcc »

kkarakk wrote: post #176
jjcc wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet you have illusion. But most readers don't know and believe what you said. Trust me, there's NO dead people on street in big cities. The only time I've seen was in a small town an old homeless people died overnight very close to a bus station. But covered with some bed sheet quickly. Any rational person will tell me: "You haven't seen doesn't mean there's NONE". Let me tell you why that can not happen: All the C…

http://www.virtualshanghai.net/Texts/Articles?ID=76 here's a paper from 2009 that directly contradicts you. why do you feel the need to bring nationality into the discussion? you think mentioning that there are a lot of chinese on hackernews will silence the facts? your data is as anecdotal as his but i've found a paper that contradicts you

I guess you didn't read the paper. All the artical is about the era of republican-China (i.e before 1949) except only one partial data (total death number) of 50-51. The data about "Number of exposed corpses and abandoned coffins" even only before 1938.

What doesn't that mean? That means you provide some evidence that inderectly support the idea that a govenment of "None-Regime" with less control over its citizen's life similar to India could cause many abandoned dead people. The republican-China before 1949 was the one that overthrowned by currrent "regime". The one that was thrown happened to be more like India in many ways excpet at that time there was no real election yet.

The same "Republic of China" still exist today. It's formal name of Taiwan. There are NO long time exposed dead people in normal place in China. I mean NONE, not few vs many. The story of above ID is totally fake.

I believe there are NO long exposed dead people in Taiwan today either. But before 1949 it was a weak government managed a much larger population with much much less control compare to today's "Regime-China"

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#228

Post by olalonde »

wallace_f wrote: post #22
olalonde wrote: post #15

That makes me sad, I like Chinese mega cities and it seems like a "problem" that should solve itself without government intervention.

These kinds of heavy-handed interventions seem to almost always lead to processes of waste and corruption -- ie so who gets to live in Shanghai? That will be decided by bureaucrats and lawyers which opens up cronyism. By contrast, previously the market provided an efficient, free-to-use, and arguably fair system that allocated the opportunity to whoever was willing to pay for it. People will say "but they need to tac…

Agreed. And unfortunately, it's a policy that will heavily enrich current Shanghai real estate owners (most of which are already wealthy) and residents so there won't be much political opposition.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#229

Post by hktrl »

cycrutchfield wrote: post #74
hktrl wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ahahahah it's that what they told you? So you're saying that when the NSA was controlling anyone was not a form of 'government control' but just a way to express their 'individual liberty'? I don't see much differences between US and China, especially on the matter of mass control.

If you are not going to make intellectually honest arguments here, I suggest that you just not post.

I can see that US is mass-controlling their Citizen as well as China. How many arguments you want? NSA has spied anyone in the earth; Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Twitter, Apple and all the tech companies in US share the information to their government anytime. How many proof you want?

If you apply for an ESTA visa they ask your social media accounts (as optional - like they don't know how to search you)

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#230

Post by dang »

capsulehotel wrote: post #178
kkarakk wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.virtualshanghai.net/Texts/Articles?ID=76 here's a paper from 2009 that directly contradicts you. why do you feel the need to bring nationality into the discussion? you think mentioning that there are a lot of chinese on hackernews will silence the facts? your data is as anecdotal as his but i've found a paper that contradicts you

Here's a paper from 2009 about 1950s and earlier China long before economic reforms that totally contradicts you... not... Try harder bro...

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