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Shanghai sets population at 25M

theguardian.com

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Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#71

Post by thriftwy »

Cookingboy wrote: post #40
wonderous wrote: post #20

China’s policies are confusing, first they wanted to move everyone to the major cities, now the cities are saying they will cap the populations. Anyone know what is going on?

That's not true, China does not want to move people into major cities, that's why they have the "Hukou" system, which is a residency registration. What they want is urbanization of the less developed areas, many of which were farmlands from before.

> What they want is urbanization of the less developed areas

Everybody wants that. Can't remember that any country ever got it, in the last century, anyway. That's akin to wanting water to roll uphill.

Argentine will prefer its population to not clutter around Buenos Aires. France will prefer everybody not move to Paris, same for Russia with Moscow. But that's just not what is happening anywhere.

If you're moving to a city, makes total sense to pick a powerful one.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#72

Post by cycrutchfield »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #54
adventured wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're setting up a fake strawman that the parent comment never suggested at all. In no regard did the parent say that politicians in the West are not or are never corrupt, nor did they imply it. They said China's government is corrupt to the core.

And couldn't the same be said about US government? Or France government? Or any other Western government? How is it that China is obviously "corrupt to the core", but our governments are not? Pretty much daily reports in the news about corruption in western democracies - they all don't count, I assume, because what we have here is not True Corruption?

So you're saying that because we do not hear about corruption in state-controlled media in countries like China and Russia, but we do hear about corruption in countries like the US or France, is evidence that Western corruption is more rampant than elsewhere?

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#73

Post by seanmcdirmid »

thedailymail wrote: post #33
Top19 wrote: post #31

Friendly reminder that China is the biggest bubble in 10,000 years of human history: https://www.crescat.net/crescat-capital-quarterly-investor-l... Imagine a country with 1,000 different Enron’s or Countrywide’s that instead of being investigated by the government are getting cover/protection instead. Upcoming movie about this: https://youtu.be/MRm3SYaG7k0

As skeptical as I am about predictions on the imminent demise of the Chinese economy (which occur regularly going back at least to Gordon Chang), I'm intrigued to see what an experienced documentary maker like Alex Gibney will add to the discussion. Thanks for posting the link!

In the media, it has been just been Gordon Chang. But China is due for a normal bubble crash, which occur quite frequently in normal economies, but who knows when that will happen.

Pro-china people will always interpret crash as collapse to create a red herring against anyone who isn’t bullish on the Chinese economy. Likewise via the opposite for anti-china people. It makes any discussion basically a red herring fight.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#74

Post by cycrutchfield »

hktrl wrote: post #21
Fej wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the West, we decided that individual liberty is more important than mass control. The Chinese government is corrupt to the core. Do you want that kind of government controlling you?

ahahahah it's that what they told you? So you're saying that when the NSA was controlling anyone was not a form of 'government control' but just a way to express their 'individual liberty'? I don't see much differences between US and China, especially on the matter of mass control.

If you are not going to make intellectually honest arguments here, I suggest that you just not post.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#75

Post by seanmcdirmid »

whooshee wrote: post #16
Fej wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the West, we decided that individual liberty is more important than mass control. The Chinese government is corrupt to the core. Do you want that kind of government controlling you?

Of course, legalized donations and interest groups in the West are not corrupted at all.

Because their legal, at least they are somewhat transparent. It also helps the west better adhere to rule of law, while in china it is all illegal but happens anyways (law isn’t very important compared to official whimsy).

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#76

Post by seanmcdirmid »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #54
adventured wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're setting up a fake strawman that the parent comment never suggested at all. In no regard did the parent say that politicians in the West are not or are never corrupt, nor did they imply it. They said China's government is corrupt to the core.

And couldn't the same be said about US government? Or France government? Or any other Western government? How is it that China is obviously "corrupt to the core", but our governments are not? Pretty much daily reports in the news about corruption in western democracies - they all don't count, I assume, because what we have here is not True Corruption?

It’s not binary! China is more corrupt than western countries, even if the west stil has corruption. The west has frequent reports about corruption because the media is separate from the government as well as separation of power, nothing can be papered over even if Donald Trump wants to silence it. In china, only corruption is reported on from official direction, the press can’t act independently.

There are plenty of countries that are more corrupt than China (e.g. India and Russia, as well as most of Africa). Again, it’s not binary!

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#77

Post by seanmcdirmid »

whooshee wrote: post #17
goldenkey wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly don't want my organs harvested because I smoked weed on my birthday.

Very interesting, I've never heard anyone in China have their organ stolen by smoking weeds or taking drugs. China may execute drug dealers but not drug users.

Organ harvesting of condemned prisoners continues although China has promised to to stop it multiple times. It’s why china has some of the quickest turn around times for organ transplants even though it has one of the lowest voluntary donation rates.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#78

Post by peteretep »

cromon wrote: post #64
peteretep wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London has a green belt -- an area of land around it which is legally protected. This makes the cost of living in London prohibitive, and limits growth.

London hasn't fallen in population since the 90s in fact it's been a steady rise since then(0). These are just the official stats, anecdotally there is noticeably a lot more people in London than when I was a teenager. (0) https://www.trustforlondon.org.uk/data/londons-population-ov...

It's still the same as it was in 1939 though... And if you compare it with any Chinese city, London's slow re-population looks exceptionally sluggish.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#79

Post by peteretep »

walrus1066 wrote: post #55
peteretep wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London has a green belt -- an area of land around it which is legally protected. This makes the cost of living in London prohibitive, and limits growth.

Not sure how much it limits growth, people just cram into ever smaller living spaces, or commute in from towns further away.

It was 8.3m 100 years ago, and it's 9.1m now.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#80

Post by [deleted] »

volgo wrote: post #58

The problem they're trying to solve is city slums, which is common in Asia. I've worked in India before, and every major city (Delhi, Chennai) is filled with massive slums of migrant workers who obviously haven't kept up with the modern development. Without turning this into a pity post and sounding like an uncultured asshole, it was horrifying to see and really broke my heart that people are living in conditions lik…

[deleted]
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