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Shanghai sets population at 25M

theguardian.com

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Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#11

Post by chipperyman573 »

goldenkey wrote: post #8
Fej wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the West, we decided that individual liberty is more important than mass control. The Chinese government is corrupt to the core. Do you want that kind of government controlling you?

I certainly don't want my organs harvested because I smoked weed on my birthday.

China kills people for smoking weed https://www.420magazine.com/forums/china/87294-china-marijua...

I'm not sure what that was supposed to mean, anyway. America doesn't harvest the organs of convicted citizens.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#12

Post by [deleted] »

goldenkey wrote: post #8
Fej wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the West, we decided that individual liberty is more important than mass control. The Chinese government is corrupt to the core. Do you want that kind of government controlling you?

I certainly don't want my organs harvested because I smoked weed on my birthday.

[deleted]

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#13

Post by VeejayRampay »

Fej wrote: post #6
meganibla wrote: post #4

China can take ambitious practical goals like that seriously. The West cannot, the West is problematically irresponsible.

In the West, we decided that individual liberty is more important than mass control. The Chinese government is corrupt to the core. Do you want that kind of government controlling you?

Do you seriously think politicians in the "West" (whatever that means) are not corrupt? Have you followed the news in the past say 20 years?

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#14

Post by whooshee »

goldenkey wrote: post #7
meganibla wrote: post #4

China can take ambitious practical goals like that seriously. The West cannot, the West is problematically irresponsible.

No, the West can but we don't kid ourselves by thinking that the means to the end won't be inhumane and violent. Just like the 1 child policy. There's ways to accomplish things gracefully, and they tend not to be explicit .. they tend to be encouraging the alternatives, finding underlying causes, and promoting those. To cause subtle percolating change. China's way for change is reminiscent of when they killed all the…

Yes, like soft-segregate people by their how much money they have. Having slums that policemen are afraid to go in. That's very graceful.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#16

Post by whooshee »

Fej wrote: post #6
meganibla wrote: post #4

China can take ambitious practical goals like that seriously. The West cannot, the West is problematically irresponsible.

In the West, we decided that individual liberty is more important than mass control. The Chinese government is corrupt to the core. Do you want that kind of government controlling you?

Of course, legalized donations and interest groups in the West are not corrupted at all.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#17

Post by whooshee »

goldenkey wrote: post #8
Fej wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the West, we decided that individual liberty is more important than mass control. The Chinese government is corrupt to the core. Do you want that kind of government controlling you?

I certainly don't want my organs harvested because I smoked weed on my birthday.

Very interesting, I've never heard anyone in China have their organ stolen by smoking weeds or taking drugs. China may execute drug dealers but not drug users.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#18

Post by forkLding »

Fej wrote: post #6
meganibla wrote: post #4

China can take ambitious practical goals like that seriously. The West cannot, the West is problematically irresponsible.

In the West, we decided that individual liberty is more important than mass control. The Chinese government is corrupt to the core. Do you want that kind of government controlling you?

I have several rebuttals, however note that I do not support the CCP and I wont kid myself in saying that I'm not in China not for a reason.

China looks towards stability and economic growth right now instead of individual liberty simply because it has poor people who live in abject poverty in vilages and this is the majority. Only the coastal minority and the major cities have seen economic uplift.

Corruption is rampant and that is true but the objective is still for economic progress and national development, other countries suffer this issue, with the BRICs being a great example, Brazil's presidencies have been rocked by corruption scandals and the establishment is strong.

Individual liberty is not really on an individual basis in USA. Individual liberty and full rights has only been given to citizens which is every person born in America. It has traditionally been given to WASP and Americans of European descent and neglected for former descendants of slaves, etc.

What I would say is that this is a transition. China will become better and be the kind of govt people need. After all, we all know that if you were Black in USA in the past, you did not have a good time and would see govt as a negatice coercive force trying to control and probably actively enslave you dependant on the times.

EDIT: irrelevent anecdote, I started judging countries based on their airports because its a quick litmus test for either how bad corruption is or just how bad the local govt is. I started this after the person checking my ticket in Nepal would only let me pass and depart if I paid a bribe. This was in front of a queue of people.

Turns out theres a first time for everything.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#19

Post by code_sloth »

Fej wrote: post #6
meganibla wrote: post #4

China can take ambitious practical goals like that seriously. The West cannot, the West is problematically irresponsible.

In the West, we decided that individual liberty is more important than mass control. The Chinese government is corrupt to the core. Do you want that kind of government controlling you?

How is the west any less corrupt? The big corporations are basically machinery at this point. Their only purpose is to self perpetuate and benefit themselves and their shareholders, many times at the expense of the public. At least their government is attempting to fix problems, and not leaving everything to the free market Gods.

Besides, look who the US elected for president. Every single check and balance in the system failed to keep Trump in check. I'd say the US government doesn't look that much better.

Liberty is a double edged sword that cuts both ways. Few wield it as intended. Most people pick it up and swing wildy because they don't like something, and they are no better than a mob.

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