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Shanghai sets population at 25M

theguardian.com

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Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#61

Post by walrus1066 »

vsc wrote: post #48

How did western countries deal with this kind of problem? Or they havent faced anything of such scale till now?

It took >100 years for them to deal with it. It was often much worse than China now.

In the UK, in the 1800's, millions moved to London, and lived in shocking slum conditions. Life expectancy was ~30 years, diseases like cholera killed many, because of overcrowding and poor sanitation. Pollution was awful, As recently as 1952, 10,000 people died in four days in the great smog of London https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog_of_London.

In summary, it took a long time to address the problem.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#62

Post by CuriousSkeptic »

inertial wrote: post #36

Genuinely curious : What's a good alternative to setting a population limit per city ? Having lived in cities that are crumbling under poor infrastructure, unchecked growth, excessive pollution (from vehicles, stuck in endless traffic jams), shortage of water/electricity, I wonder what can be done to fix this. Everyone from across the country wants to migrate to a few big cities that provide good employment. We shoul…

Why not simply increase property taxes?

Or, long term, lease all properties at market rate.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#63

Post by jamesoo8 »

volgo wrote: post #58

The problem they're trying to solve is city slums, which is common in Asia. I've worked in India before, and every major city (Delhi, Chennai) is filled with massive slums of migrant workers who obviously haven't kept up with the modern development. Without turning this into a pity post and sounding like an uncultured asshole, it was horrifying to see and really broke my heart that people are living in conditions lik…

I have to say, you know nothing about China. India is not comparable to China in every aspect. You just deduct from things happen in India, that is ridiculous. You said hutong is similar to slum, this showed your ignorance. Go to learn more, then talk about hutong again.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#64

Post by cromon »

peteretep wrote: post #45
inertial wrote: post #36

Genuinely curious : What's a good alternative to setting a population limit per city ? Having lived in cities that are crumbling under poor infrastructure, unchecked growth, excessive pollution (from vehicles, stuck in endless traffic jams), shortage of water/electricity, I wonder what can be done to fix this. Everyone from across the country wants to migrate to a few big cities that provide good employment. We shoul…

London has a green belt -- an area of land around it which is legally protected. This makes the cost of living in London prohibitive, and limits growth.

London hasn't fallen in population since the 90s in fact it's been a steady rise since then(0). These are just the official stats, anecdotally there is noticeably a lot more people in London than when I was a teenager.

(0) https://www.trustforlondon.org.uk/data/londons-population-ov...

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#65

Post by chj »

volgo wrote: post #58

The problem they're trying to solve is city slums, which is common in Asia. I've worked in India before, and every major city (Delhi, Chennai) is filled with massive slums of migrant workers who obviously haven't kept up with the modern development. Without turning this into a pity post and sounding like an uncultured asshole, it was horrifying to see and really broke my heart that people are living in conditions lik…

they say that you can solve poverty problem by eliminating poor population.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#66

Post by jamesoo8 »

People should not be curious about such things happened in China since they are controlled by the CCP. Some stupid officers can make all kinds of ridiculous policies, sometimes the basic reason is just to consolidate their regime. The simple reason is that, if the city is too big, it becomes more hard to control for them.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#67

Post by oblio »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #13
Fej wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the West, we decided that individual liberty is more important than mass control. The Chinese government is corrupt to the core. Do you want that kind of government controlling you?

Do you seriously think politicians in the "West" (whatever that means) are not corrupt? Have you followed the news in the past say 20 years?

The true measure or corruption is performance. If those corrupt politicians somehow stil ensure a decent standard of living for their citizens, then they're better than the ones elsewhere.

I'd rather be a citizen of the US or France than of China.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#68

Post by yeukhon »

ksec wrote: post #27

Because they have learned their lesson with Hong Kong when they cant really control property market and what problems it leads to.

Maybe. I am originally from HK, so I understand the frustration there. However, this is more about forcing people to go back to less developed cities and towns where they might have a residency there. Also, removing the so-called “low end people” the officials are able to reclaim the lands and redevelop the area. One thing to note here is the Chinese officials in Beijing has been removing signs that don’t fit certain guidlines forcibly, which shows the officials’ desire to maintain the city with what I considered as “urban class system” - you don’t get to live in Beijing / Shanghai unless you meet such and such criteria.

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#69

Post by mcny »

yulaow wrote: post #43
inertial wrote: post #36

Genuinely curious : What's a good alternative to setting a population limit per city ? Having lived in cities that are crumbling under poor infrastructure, unchecked growth, excessive pollution (from vehicles, stuck in endless traffic jams), shortage of water/electricity, I wonder what can be done to fix this. Everyone from across the country wants to migrate to a few big cities that provide good employment. We shoul…

Most people just move to the big cities because there there are the jobs which pay better (and the chance to hop between them in case of being fired, without having to relocate) A good start could be just to make remote all the jobs that can be made remote, but of course this would not cover a big part of jobs which need a whole team in the same location and specialized machinery (Eg the whole manufacturing sector)

> A good start could be just to make remote all the jobs that can be made remote, but of course this would not cover a big part of jobs which need a whole team in the same location and specialized machinery (Eg the whole manufacturing sector)

Marissa Mayer raised the question of in-office vs remote at Yahoo! and I am still not convinced either way. If we had a robust basic income, we should just let go of people who we feel are dead-weight on our team? https://archive.fo/ThVv9

On the other side of the spectrum, the concept of a "manufacturing city" in China PR is troubling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91s87s2Ar20 What happens when someone is not capable of working anymore?

Re: Shanghai sets population at 25M

#70

Post by yulaow »

mcny wrote: post #69
yulaow wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people just move to the big cities because there there are the jobs which pay better (and the chance to hop between them in case of being fired, without having to relocate) A good start could be just to make remote all the jobs that can be made remote, but of course this would not cover a big part of jobs which need a whole team in the same location and specialized machinery (Eg the whole manufacturing sector)

> A good start could be just to make remote all the jobs that can be made remote, but of course this would not cover a big part of jobs which need a whole team in the same location and specialized machinery (Eg the whole manufacturing sector) Marissa Mayer raised the question of in-office vs remote at Yahoo! and I am still not convinced either way. If we had a robust basic income, we should just let go of people who…

I think we all know that the Marissa Mayer "war" on remote jobs was just a PR move to facilitate a rapid mass layoff without negative moral repercussions on the rest of the Yahoo teams. We should not take her words as a serious reflection on the issue
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