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Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

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Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#111

Post by lkjhgfhjk »

jancona wrote: post #48
seldo wrote: post #6

Excuse the really really obvious question, but how can you sue somebody for intellectual property infringement on open-source software? Didn't you already give anybody the license to do what they wanted with it? If they've violated the license terms in some way, isn't that different from IP infringement?

The linked article is very unclear about what Oracle is suing about. From this article, it appears that they're claiming patent infringement (not copyright violation): http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/d95fbb12-a671-11df-8767-00144feabd... Sun/Oracle's Java implementation was released under the GPLv2, which doesn't include a patent license. I don't know if they included any patent license with the open source release. Even i…

So take Sun's GPL Java, modify it - by say deleting all the sun code and inserting your own, then release the changes back to Oracle under the GPL!

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#113

Post by astrange »

technomancy wrote: post #89
noonespecial wrote: post #13

It just goes to show that whatever company-de-jour promises about enforcing the patents that they are granted today, all bets are off when they fall on hard times and are acquired tomorrow. Serious about openness? Skip the "patent and promise" dance and just release the damn thing BSD.

The BSD license would be useless here. Preventing this kind of thing is the whole point of the third revision of the GPL; to my knowledge there are no other software licenses that do this.

See LGPLv2 section 11.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#114

Post by ssp »

cscotta wrote: post #7

The biggest issue I see with Oracle's lawsuit is not with Android itself, but the future of Java as an open platform. The claims are pretty serious, and Oracle is going straight for the jugular. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out, but I've got to hope that Google will come out of this in good shape for the sake of Java. It's unfortunate that Oracle is interpreting Google's implementation of Dalvik and a Ja…

The complaint as a PDF:

http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/engadget/files/oracle-google.p...

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#116

Post by zmmmmm »

jarin wrote: post #54

The headline should read "Oracle sues Google over literally the only thing keeping Java relevant".

I don't necessarily agree about relevance, but I do find it quite mind boggling that Oracle would strike out against what is clearly a massive growth opportunity for Java. If they want to destroy the Java brand the fastest way possible then definitely the right thing to do is start suing people who are using Java. The million dollar question is why would anybody in their right mind do this?

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#117

Post by zmmmmm »

wmf wrote: post #64
donaq wrote: post #50

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand this decision. Is Oracle in need of cash or something? Why did they become patent trolls? I mean, they're not even in the smart phone business, and it's not like Google is going to put a DBMS into Android. How are they being threatened in any way by Google?

Oh, but they are in the phone business; every phone that includes Java pays license fees to Oracle... except Android phones aren't paying.

This may be true but it would be amazingly bone headed of them. Android is the best thing to happen to Java in the last 5 years, and the perception (at least) that people using Java have less to worry about as far as patents go is one of the few things really giving it a strong advantage over .NET. This is a remarkably effective way of destroying several of Java's strengths all in one go....

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#118

Post by recoil »

binaryfinery wrote: post #74
KirinDave wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure the Mono people are worried. These patents are things that are fairly fundamental and important to any sort of mobile device that has competent security.

No I'm pretty sure they aren't. The CLR is totally different to the JVM.

Google aren't using the JVM either, they're using the Dalvik VM. The alleged patent infringement may apply to just about any VM implementation.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#119

Post by guelo »

My dream for wrestling my profession away from the lawyers and CEOs is the formation of a programmer's union. The union would mainly be concerned with issues like these patents. A strike would be called on any company that tried to use software patents. A strike would mean not only that the programmers of that company would stop working, but also all programmers nationwide would refuse to work on that company's products and platforms.

If such a union existed it would immediately stop the use of software patents. The union could also lobby congress for the elimination of software patents and could work on other programmer related laws, establish standards bodies, etc. IOW, give programmers some say in the industry that is currently driven by the suits.

Re: Oracle sues Google over use of Java in Android

#120

Post by houseabsolute »

dminor wrote: post #112

Google's an engineering company and I think they should fight back as such. Get together a team of your best and brightest, take Postgres, and turn it into a drop-in replacement for Oracle. And be very public about your efforts.

Because Oracle doesn't own any patents on the implementation of relational databases that they couldn't also sue Google over . . .

The most engineer-ish thing to do is a back of the envelope calculation:

    1. Estimate how much it'd cost to fight the suit.
    2. Estimate the probability of winning.
    3. Estimate the damages if you lose.
    4. Estimate Oracle's ask for licensing the patents.
If (1 + 2 * 3) < 4, fight, else settle. They probably have pretty good numbers on one, three, and four considering they likely discussed this with Oracle before fisticuffs began. The only perilous part is estimating two.
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