Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies • Hacker News Board

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#81

Post by xyzzyz » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:28 PM UTC

Udik wrote: post #63

xyzzyz wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is no more real life than Second Life is -- both exist in our reality just the same. Virtual goods in second life are no more virtual than bitcoins are -- both are just bits on some hard drives that people agreed to be worth something. There are significant differences between Bitcoin and Second Life, the lack of centralized control in the former being the biggest, but they aren't what you described in your c…

> Bitcoin is no more real life than Second Life is Not a big fan of bitcoin here, but there is a difference which I don't think it's captured by that "lack of centralized control". And it is that bitcoins exist as some sort of mathematical object, that is guaranteed in its working and will exist forever as long as there are people mining the blockchain. They remind me a bit of the ever expanding, mathematically deter…

There nothing mathematical about guarantees for bitcoins continuing existence — it really boils down to the social contract between miners that agree to use the same set of rules. See for example the result of the Dao hack in Ethereum world — if there really was any mathematical guarantee to Eth smart contracts, you’d imagine you couldn’t simply revert them by updating the software. The parallel to Egan’s dust theory is interesting, but only valid as long as someone is actually mining blocks using old clients nobody cares about in the long forgotten forks of the chain, which doesn’t really happen.

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#82

Post by cies » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:29 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #78

cies wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > I do not believe investment creates jobs, I believe increased consumption and protective economic policy create jobs. > You are entitled to your beliefs Thank you :) > but factually you are completely wrong. Without investment, you have no goods to consume. I'm not saying investment in not needed at all. I'm saying that it does not create jobs. The demand for bicycles creates jobs. Not the investment in the produ…

> Look at Taiwan, Singapore and HongKong. They were protective You literally picked three free trading economies [1], each highly reliant on foreign investment. Hong Kong was explicitly established as a free trading nexus for London and China. The IMF has for years been asking Hong Kong to increase regulation [2]. In contrast to Belarus, you also picked at least two countries which have defined themselves, in large p…

> You literally picked three free trading economies

Yes! Protective econ policy does not mean to close borders. It means to open/close when it makes domestic sense. And I'm not talking about their policy today, I mean their policy over the years of working their way out of poverty.

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#83

Post by kingofhdds » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:32 PM UTC

lowry wrote: post #11

myth_drannon wrote: post #9

Just FYI Belarus is not a democracy and the laws change at the whim of the rulers. Read the journal of this blogger who got arrested there https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/blogs-trending-38804499 , the people(the foreign nationals) who were in jail with him...

Just FYI, Belarusians often refer to Donald Trump as the american Lukashenka. They share quite a few traits.

>

Not true. I'm Belarusian, and it's the first time I'm seeing this. I cannot say for every compatriot, of course, but "Belarusians often refer" implies something well-known, and it's not the case here. Truth be told, thoughts of majority of Belarusians do not revolve around US policy.

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#84

Post by nhaehnle » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:34 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #59

cies wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democracies are more stable and tend to contain healthier economies, in the long run [1]. Good for the economies. But some great economies happen in non-democratic places. It tells me nothing. I'm more concerned with fighting oppression than promoting the growth of "healthier economy" (what ever that may mean). > It is meaningful, on the other hand, to consider how long a regime (and thus one's investments) will la…

> I do not believe investment creates jobs, I believe increased consumption and protective economic policy create jobs. You are entitled to your beliefs, but factually you are completely wrong. Without investment, you have no goods to consume. A bicycle consists of many parts. You can’t buy a bicycle without someone willing to mine the metals necessary to make those parts. You can’t mine metals without money to hire…

I think you may be talking past each other.

It's true that investment creates jobs, but it's also true that there's no investment without consumption.

The current prevailing economic policy consensus is very much misguided in that it only focuses on increasing investment. But investments just won't happen when there's nobody (or rather: not enough demand) to buy the resulting products.

This is why we need more policies that aim at consumption.

As a final thought: the reason why our prevailing economic policy consensus is misguided in the way it is is probably mostly down to motivated reasoning. If your goal is aiming at consumption, you have to look at the lower end of the income and wealth scale (because that's where the marginal propensity to consume is high). If your real goal is to make life even easier for the wealthy, it's comparatively easier to hide corresponding policies under the mantle of helping investment. Hence the focus on investment.

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#85

Post by ceasarby » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:35 PM UTC

shokasg wrote: post #69

ceasarby wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Lithuania making big deal out of this nuclear station. They aren't happy that it's based close to the border and they trying to say that it's not safe, blah-blah-blah, nobody will buy electricity and so on. Other countries don't have issues with this station though, EU checked it and found everything within norms. But every time something happens at the construction, like they pour concrete at the wrong spot, L…

But it is big deal. In worst case scenario, most of Lithuania's land would be no-go zone. Violating Espoo and Aarhus Conventions, lying and covering up accidents, while normal practice in Russia & co countries, it is not in EU. Could you please provide source for "EU checked it and found everything within norms"?

The construction spot complies with all MAGATE standards:

http://www.belta.by/economics/view/ostrovetskaja-ploschadka-...

MAGATE SEED mission external risks report is overall positive:

https://news.tut.by/economics/546471.html http://minenergo.gov.by/wp-content/uploads/Report-SEED-missi...

Here's interview with vice-minister of energetic where he answers a lot of questions and concerns of Lithuania: There's 7 more MAGATE SEED missions planned to visit the station and security tests are going according to the plan.

https://news.tut.by/politics/486906.html

Here's info that crush-tests were made and results provided to EU commission and everyone who wants to know.

https://news.tut.by/society/567848.html

What I see is that Lithuania takes totally nonconstructive position. They concerned about security of the station, but at the same time want to pull off the scientists from EU commission that will be working on implementing EU security standards on station.

https://news.tut.by/economics/562015.html

Reality is this station will be build, because Belarus needs it for energetic security to diversify it's energy consumption from dependency russian gas. Belarusians are the first who interested in high security standards. But Lithuania wants Belarus to stop building it, it's ultimatum and it's not going to work. It's not to late to find compromise decision and Belarus is open for dialog and Lithuania tries to take unfriendly steps like twist the facts and mix up the question about station with the other things. Even swedish deputy said you guys shouldn't bring Europe to two-sided conflict:

https://news.tut.by/economics/550112.html

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#86

Post by koskeller » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:36 PM UTC

If you need help in Belarus or have questions – ping me in telegram/facebook: koskeller

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#87

Post by drvdevd » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:47 PM UTC

Whackbat wrote: post #20

Many of the bold claims in this document are completely unsubstantiated. Question 7: How does the Law regulate Blockchain and cryptocurrencies? It can't. The principle argument that deals will be safe because the HTP residents are 'trusted and respectable companies' is naive and invalidates the fundamentally trustless model of blockchains. Question 8: How is the mining activity of individuals regulated? Won't they la…

The more blockchain regulation I see, the more I have to question the technical competence of regulators or the actual policy and implementation goals they have in mind.

Do they have technologists telling them, “yes we can track this.” Or do they not actually care about what they claim to, eg: money laundering...?

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#88

Post by ceasarby » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:49 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #73

ceasarby wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://belapan.com/archive/2017/02/07/887716/ Belapan is one of the biggest informational agencies in Belarus. Российско-израильский блогер Александр Лапшин был задержан в Минске 14 декабря 2016 года по запросу Азербайджана, который объявил его в международный розыск за незаконное посещение Нагорного Карабаха. The Russian-Israeli blogger Alexander Lapshin was detained in Minsk on December 14, 2016 at the request of…

> Belapan is one of the biggest informational agencies in Belarus Emphasis on "independent". I see a bunch of Belarussian sources saying he had an Interpol warrant out and a bunch of Armenian sources saying he didn't [1]. BBC simply says "Azerbaijan issued an arrest warrant" for Lapshin's arrest [2], with no mention of Interpol. (Note: Interpol's charter bans, at least in theory, disputes of a political nature [3].)…

Right, Armenian sources obviously not independent in this case. Azerbaijan has a beef with Armenia about non-recognized territory that this guy visited and wrote in his blog how he fooled Azerbaijan military and same crap that he wrote about Belarusian jail. Azerbaijan started criminal case for Lapshin using fake Ukrainian passport (renounced in 2011) to enter the country and of course Armenia supports him for visiting the territory that they consider it's own. I don't want to dig into this conflict between Azerbaijan and Armenia and take sides, but I understand why Armenian sources will be writing anything against Azerbaijan.

I think decision to transfer this guy to Azerbaijan was the right one. He violated the law, used the fake passport and wrote crap about them as a country. Why Belarus should cover up his shit and decide who's right and wrong in this story? They got the warrant and send his ass there. Done deal.

Next time when you travel, use valid passport, be respectful to the locals and you get the same treatment in return. Always worked for me. He did totally opposite and got burned. Good thing he's doing OK now, at home and hopefully learned the lesson.

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#89

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:50 PM UTC

nhaehnle wrote: post #84

briandear wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not believe investment creates jobs, I believe increased consumption and protective economic policy create jobs. You are entitled to your beliefs, but factually you are completely wrong. Without investment, you have no goods to consume. A bicycle consists of many parts. You can’t buy a bicycle without someone willing to mine the metals necessary to make those parts. You can’t mine metals without money to hire…

I think you may be talking past each other. It's true that investment creates jobs, but it's also true that there's no investment without consumption. The current prevailing economic policy consensus is very much misguided in that it only focuses on increasing investment. But investments just won't happen when there's nobody (or rather: not enough demand) to buy the resulting products. This is why we need more polici…

> The current prevailing economic policy consensus is very much misguided in that it only focuses on increasing investment

This is a straw man [1]. Consumption is generally recognized as being the dominant component of market economies' GDPs. The IMF's position with regards to China has been, consistently and for years, that they are prioritizing investment over consumption to the detriment of stability.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#90

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Dec 22, 2017, 2:52 PM UTC

ceasarby wrote: post #88

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Belapan is one of the biggest informational agencies in Belarus Emphasis on "independent". I see a bunch of Belarussian sources saying he had an Interpol warrant out and a bunch of Armenian sources saying he didn't [1]. BBC simply says "Azerbaijan issued an arrest warrant" for Lapshin's arrest [2], with no mention of Interpol. (Note: Interpol's charter bans, at least in theory, disputes of a political nature [3].)…

Right, Armenian sources obviously not independent in this case. Azerbaijan has a beef with Armenia about non-recognized territory that this guy visited and wrote in his blog how he fooled Azerbaijan military and same crap that he wrote about Belarusian jail. Azerbaijan started criminal case for Lapshin using fake Ukrainian passport (renounced in 2011) to enter the country and of course Armenia supports him for visiti…

> I think decision to transfer this guy to Azerbaijan was the right one

That's cool but not what we're talking about. OP said Belarus jailed a journalist. You said it was in response to an Interpol warrant. We have impartial evidence of the jailing. We have no impartial evidence of your claim.