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Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

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Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#71

Post by ceasarby »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #52
ceasarby wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This blogger was arrested because Interpol issued warrant for his arrest. Belarus as law-abiding member of Interpol just complied with rules, he was extradited to the country that made request, afaik. I wouldn't trust the guy who broke the law on purpose. What he did is entered the territory using a fake passport, after he was specifically told by the government the he can't do this. And he did it not for any valid r…

> This blogger was arrested because Interpol issued warrant for his arrest I am having trouble finding an independent source for this claim.

https://belapan.com/archive/2017/02/07/887716/

Belapan is one of the biggest informational agencies in Belarus.

Российско-израильский блогер Александр Лапшин был задержан в Минске 14 декабря 2016 года по запросу Азербайджана, который объявил его в международный розыск за незаконное посещение Нагорного Карабаха.

The Russian-Israeli blogger Alexander Lapshin was detained in Minsk on December 14, 2016 at the request of Azerbaijan, who declared him on the international wanted list for illegally visiting Nagorno-Karabakh.

Лукашенко заявил, а Шуневич подтвердил, что Лапшин был задержан в Минске не по инициативе Азербайджана, а потому, что находился в розыске по линии Интерпола. "Мы согласно решению Интерпола его задержали. И согласно всем законам и порядку мы должны его передать Азербайджану.

Lukashenko said, and Shunevich (Minister of Internal Affairs) confirmed that Lapshin was detained in Minsk not on the initiative of Azerbaijan, but because he was wanted by the Interpol line. "We, according to the decision of Interpol, detained him and, according to all laws and order, we must transfer it to Azerbaijan.

Belarus had no interest in this guy and his destiny. He has 3 citizenship (Russia, Israel and Ukraine (denounced)) and got himself in the middle of Azerbaijan-Armenian conflict. All this countries, except for Ukraine wanted Belarus to do something different, release him, transfer him, etc. Belarus just did what international law says and washed the hands off. Right after he was transferred to Azerbaijan he apologized for wrong-doing and was released by the president of Azerbaijan and sent home to Israel.

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#72

Post by Nursie »

patrickaljord wrote: post #55
fwdpropaganda wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making the virtual/real world dichotomy with the hindsight of knowing that Second Life didn't go anywhere. People back then also called it a technology: it's a technology that allows e.g. in-person meetings without the need for displacement. It's a technology that disrupts physical space, the ultimate disruption! No, sorry, such dichotomy is irrelevant. What's relevant is that Second Life didn't get traction.…

Blockchains reached a valuation of $0.5 trillion and attracted all the biggest financial institutions (Goldman Sachs yesterday). Second Life traction never got even a fraction of that. Also Blockchain growth has been going for 9 years now, Second Life growth lasted 3 years ( http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/11/why_... ).

Have goldman made another announcement or are they still just acting as a clearning house for futures?

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#73

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ceasarby wrote: post #71
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This blogger was arrested because Interpol issued warrant for his arrest I am having trouble finding an independent source for this claim.

https://belapan.com/archive/2017/02/07/887716/ Belapan is one of the biggest informational agencies in Belarus. Российско-израильский блогер Александр Лапшин был задержан в Минске 14 декабря 2016 года по запросу Азербайджана, который объявил его в международный розыск за незаконное посещение Нагорного Карабаха. The Russian-Israeli blogger Alexander Lapshin was detained in Minsk on December 14, 2016 at the request of…

> Belapan is one of the biggest informational agencies in Belarus

Emphasis on "independent". I see a bunch of Belarussian sources saying he had an Interpol warrant out and a bunch of Armenian sources saying he didn't [1]. BBC simply says "Azerbaijan issued an arrest warrant" for Lapshin's arrest [2], with no mention of Interpol. (Note: Interpol's charter bans, at least in theory, disputes of a political nature [3].)

[1] https://armenpress.am/eng/news/878141/lapshin-has-never-been...

[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/blogs-trending-38804499

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#74

Post by vbezhenar »

docdeek wrote: post #33
lowry wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just FYI, Belarusians often refer to Donald Trump as the american Lukashenka. They share quite a few traits.

I imagine all leaders share some traits no matter how good, evil, or truly monstrous they are. The reality is, however, that Americans can vote their leader out of office in a couple of years while in Belarus they just cannot.

Of course they can. They just chose to re-elect him. Belarus is a democratic republic with proper election system.

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#75

Post by aburmist »

ceasarby wrote: post #51
lowry wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Belarus is finishing its first nuclear power station and wants to use the surplus capacity. Initially, they planned to sell it to Baltic countries, but these are in the EU, so it is not yet sure they will cut a deal. EU has a huge anti-nuclear, pro-carbon lobby.

Yeah, Lithuania making big deal out of this nuclear station. They aren't happy that it's based close to the border and they trying to say that it's not safe, blah-blah-blah, nobody will buy electricity and so on. Other countries don't have issues with this station though, EU checked it and found everything within norms. But every time something happens at the construction, like they pour concrete at the wrong spot, L…

Lithuania had its own Nuclear Power plant (Ignalina Nuclear Power Plant) which it closed in order to join the EU. At first, it was promising to its people that the EU will help it to build another one ("safer"), but of course nothing happened. And with the new Belorussian Nuclear Power Plant, there is no good business case for it anymore.

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#76

Post by cies »

briandear wrote: post #59
cies wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Democracies are more stable and tend to contain healthier economies, in the long run [1]. Good for the economies. But some great economies happen in non-democratic places. It tells me nothing. I'm more concerned with fighting oppression than promoting the growth of "healthier economy" (what ever that may mean). > It is meaningful, on the other hand, to consider how long a regime (and thus one's investments) will la…

> I do not believe investment creates jobs, I believe increased consumption and protective economic policy create jobs. You are entitled to your beliefs, but factually you are completely wrong. Without investment, you have no goods to consume. A bicycle consists of many parts. You can’t buy a bicycle without someone willing to mine the metals necessary to make those parts. You can’t mine metals without money to hire…

> > I do not believe investment creates jobs, I believe increased consumption and protective economic policy create jobs.

> You are entitled to your beliefs

Thank you :)

> but factually you are completely wrong. Without investment, you have no goods to consume.

I'm not saying investment in not needed at all. I'm saying that it does not create jobs. The demand for bicycles creates jobs. Not the investment in the production process.

The investment follows the (predicted) consumption.

> I suppose investment doesn’t create jobs if you have a society of pure slavery.

Seriously? Slavery has often been "invested" in. They merrily went hand in hand. Societies that did not have a capital system (like native americans or aborigines) sure were not all slaves. Your statement make no sense.

> Protective economic policy doesn’t create jobs — it stifles them. North Korea isn’t known for its booming economy (or full employment) because they don’t have much outside investment.

I have no idea, nor interest in NK, in this matter. Look at Taiwan, Singapore and HongKong. They were protective and managed to race out of poverty. Now look at the countries that signed every trade agreement the IMF made them sign: all fucked.

> Investment absolutely creates jobs because there is one human truth that can’t be escaped — people need to eat and thus they need to be paid. Getting by paid comes from capital and capital comes from investment.

Dead wrong again. Am economically-rational business owner would rather not pay anyone. The only reason he does is because he needs the worker in order to supply the demand. THE DEMAND comes first, consumption comes first. Thus investment does not create jobs: increased consumption does.

There's a chicken-egg problem there, a consumer needs money to consume, and that often comes from jobs. Investment can break that cycle, but it can just as easily fuck it up. And --as I mentioned-- investment follow (predicted) consumption.

> I get it that’s many people seem to dream of a socialist utopia — however that is a fantasy. It doesn’t exist and it never has because people are fundamentally driven by their need to eat.

If that need is frustrated, yes. But often we have enough food, and housing, and then it starts to get interesting. I'm not dreaming of a soc utopia, I'm being realistic in knowing that it is increased consumption and protective econ policy that creates jobs.

Investment follows.

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#77

Post by _0w8t »

myth_drannon wrote: post #9

Just FYI Belarus is not a democracy and the laws change at the whim of the rulers. Read the journal of this blogger who got arrested there https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/blogs-trending-38804499 , the people(the foreign nationals) who were in jail with him...

The thing about Belarus is not that laws change at whim. They are not. According a lawyer I know from Belarus in courts small and not so small cases are considered rather fairly. One in principle can count that in a daily life rule of laws applies and the level of corruption is not that bad.

But the moment your case is perceived by authorities as political or somebody with power finds your business interesting, one gets BIG troubles. Now, by playing by the rules one can protect somewhat from the "business" interests, so the situation is better than, for example, in Russia. But political part is very unpredictable and it is impossible to know which action can cross the line.

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#78

Post by JumpCrisscross »

cies wrote: post #76
briandear wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not believe investment creates jobs, I believe increased consumption and protective economic policy create jobs. You are entitled to your beliefs, but factually you are completely wrong. Without investment, you have no goods to consume. A bicycle consists of many parts. You can’t buy a bicycle without someone willing to mine the metals necessary to make those parts. You can’t mine metals without money to hire…

> > I do not believe investment creates jobs, I believe increased consumption and protective economic policy create jobs. > You are entitled to your beliefs Thank you :) > but factually you are completely wrong. Without investment, you have no goods to consume. I'm not saying investment in not needed at all. I'm saying that it does not create jobs. The demand for bicycles creates jobs. Not the investment in the produ…

> Look at Taiwan, Singapore and HongKong. They were protective

You literally picked three free trading economies [1], each highly reliant on foreign investment. Hong Kong was explicitly established as a free trading nexus for London and China. The IMF has for years been asking Hong Kong to increase regulation [2].

In contrast to Belarus, you also picked at least two countries which have defined themselves, in large part, around a respect for the rule of law.

[1] http://www.columbia.edu/~ap2231/ET/et27-june01.htm

[2] http://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2017/11/29/ms112917-chin...

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#79

Post by kbart »

vbezhenar wrote: post #74
docdeek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine all leaders share some traits no matter how good, evil, or truly monstrous they are. The reality is, however, that Americans can vote their leader out of office in a couple of years while in Belarus they just cannot.

Of course they can. They just chose to re-elect him. Belarus is a democratic republic with proper election system.

It's not hard to choose when there's only 1 real candidate. USSR had elections too.

Re: Belarus to create a regulatory environment for circulation of cryptocurrencies

#80

Post by fwdpropaganda »

patrickaljord wrote: post #55
fwdpropaganda wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're making the virtual/real world dichotomy with the hindsight of knowing that Second Life didn't go anywhere. People back then also called it a technology: it's a technology that allows e.g. in-person meetings without the need for displacement. It's a technology that disrupts physical space, the ultimate disruption! No, sorry, such dichotomy is irrelevant. What's relevant is that Second Life didn't get traction.…

Blockchains reached a valuation of $0.5 trillion and attracted all the biggest financial institutions (Goldman Sachs yesterday). Second Life traction never got even a fraction of that. Also Blockchain growth has been going for 9 years now, Second Life growth lasted 3 years ( http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2011/11/why_... ).

> Blockchains reached a valuation of $0.5 trillion and attracted all the biggest financial institutions (Goldman Sachs yesterday)

You know how bubbles work, right? What I mean is that what you've described is compatible with the "bubble" hypothesis just as it is compatible with the "disruption" hypothesis. I need to see the thing solving problems to believe the thing.

This is just me though, I'm not trying to convince you. The point I meant to make in my previous post was not a case for/against Bitcoin, but against the idea that "Bitcoin is nothing like Second life". It is in some important sense: there is a reasonable case for both and it's still too early (now for Bitcoin as at the time for SL) whether they can deliver on their promises of disruption.

EDIT: But if you want to talk about the credibility of Bitcoin, I notice you didn't respond to my observation. I don't care if it's $0.5tr or $500tr: there's still a backlog of 250k transactions. The thing is unusable right now. Now, this might be solved, yes. But right now it's a serious concern. Do you not agree?

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