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Chrome is Not the Standard

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Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#131

Post by asplake »

komali2 wrote: post #101
userbinator wrote: post #30

developers grouse about the other browser makers who are “holding the web back.” Indeed, perhaps "holding the web back" is a good thing if it means websites will be more accessible overall, to even less common browsers like NetSurf, Dillo, and all the other text-based ones. IMHO the "feature war/race" between the major browser vendors has had an overall negative effect, as if all sites somehow need to turn into ridic…

I think there may even be a chicken and egg situation going on - for some reason, media websites such as CNN are pushing giant rich media content objects at us like videos, which obviously are meaningless to a text browser. Even webdev blogs are being posted with big GIFs every paragraph or two. I'm not sure why content creators are feeling the need to go multi-media - perhaps it's getting harder and harder to tell w…

Even on my iPhone I can’t browse CNN while simultaneously listening to music or the radio (iPlayer). Even though the videos are silent until clicked, they still take over the audio. Gets me every time!

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#132

Post by city41 »

I switched to Firefox, and I was blown away to find that Google Meet (the new Hangouts) does not work. You just get the message "Meet doesn't work on your browser".

I'm also impressed at how many of my job's internal websites don't work. This doesn't bug me as much, but it's obvious the devs who created them didn't even do a sanity check in Firefox.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#133

Post by pcwalton »

hungerstrike wrote: post #67

Chrome is the de facto standard at this time and all of the irrelevant, hyperbolic nitpicking and dubious conjecture isn't going to change that. But here's a thought: WebKit and Chromium (and Blink) are open source, so maybe don't worry about it? Furthermore, if all browsers don't work the same then that's a problem for developers. If we can't have that - I'd rather see just one browser engine in use by the majority…

> But here's a thought: WebKit and Chromium (and Blink) are open source, so maybe don't worry about it?

How could Stylo have happened if WebKit/Chromium/Blink were the only browser engines? Do you think WebKit is likely to accept Rust code into the tree?

Futhermore, WebKit and Blink have substantial divergence at this point. They are not the same browser engine. Do you think that Safari and Chrome should adopt the same engine? If so, why do you think that will be more successful than the last time they tried that, which ended in a fork?

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#134

Post by kuschku »

Arcsech wrote: post #118
JohnBooty wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome is the new IE. Chrome ships new features fast, and some of them are very cool. Because of course! "Embrace, extend, extinguish" doesn't work unless the "extend" part is full of shiny, delicious candy. And platform makers can make lots and lots of shiny candy when freed from pesky things like standards. It's hard to believe we're having this discussion again. Did we learn nothing from Internet Explorer 6? IE6 d…

Chrome is 100% the IE. They blatantly ignore standards, the most obvious of which is their treatment of autocomplete=off in forms[1]. They broke the ability to disable autocomplete, and since then have been intentionally breaking workarounds people find to actually turn off autocomplete. This has been a major pain in the butt at work. Before you yell at me about password managers or whatever, we don't use this on our…

> They blatantly ignore standards, the most obvious of which is their treatment of autocomplete=off in forms[1]. They broke the ability to disable autocomplete, and since then have been intentionally breaking workarounds people find to actually turn off autocomplete. This has been a major pain in the butt at work.

My solution to that is simple. I have a microservice that tells my services how to get autocomplete=off automatically. This microservice determines the required values and ids by scraping the search box on google.com every hour, and extracting the values of the tag matching input[name=q].

That way I can fully automate autocomplete=off, and ensure it works.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#135

Post by RobertRoberts »

JohnBooty wrote: post #99
appdrag wrote: post #3

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well." I really don't agree at all with this, Safari is the new Internet explorer ... https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

Chrome is the new IE. Chrome ships new features fast, and some of them are very cool. Because of course! "Embrace, extend, extinguish" doesn't work unless the "extend" part is full of shiny, delicious candy. And platform makers can make lots and lots of shiny candy when freed from pesky things like standards. It's hard to believe we're having this discussion again. Did we learn nothing from Internet Explorer 6? IE6 d…

Maybe we can split the difference. Chrome == IE because of breaking standards, and Safari == IE because it is so far behind on supporting standards.

Also, both Chrome OS and iOS, both have integrated their browser into their OS and don't allow competition from other browsers on their platforms.

Is that a fair assessment?

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#136

Post by Gorbzel »

soperj wrote: post #113
dijit wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can argue that they're not implementing $thing-you-like but lets be real; you can't compare IE to anything if you don't include the market share. IE was harmful because it had such incredible market share and could do what it wanted with that.

And Apple has a major mobile market share, that HAS to use safari. If I could get away with not supporting safari, I definitely would.

Then you are not a proponent of an Open web, you are a lazy developer.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#138

Post by soperj »

Gorbzel wrote: post #136
soperj wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Apple has a major mobile market share, that HAS to use safari. If I could get away with not supporting safari, I definitely would.

Then you are not a proponent of an Open web, you are a lazy developer.

Because of their lack of conforming to standards.

My point was about their marketshare, but hey... fuck you too.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#139

Post by teilo »

bluetwo wrote: post #95
Ajedi32 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was essentially a paid-for promotional tie-in From what I recall, it wasn't paid-for either. > we developed an unpaid collaboration to engage our users and viewers of the show in a new way Source: https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/update-looking-glass-add/

If they didn't get paid, why on earth did they do it?

Not all incentives are direct financial incentives. It's free marketing. It increases market penetration. It encourages people who only use Chrome to try Firefox.

It was absolutely the wrong thing to do, but it's not like they stood nothing to gain from it.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#140

Post by pcwalton »

hungerstrike wrote: post #87
syshum wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be great if Chromium/Chrome used WebKit, they dont. They stopped using Webkit years ago

Yeah, they use Blink which is a fork of WebKit and open source as well. So I guess it is great, isn't it?

You missed the point. Your position is that there should be only one browser engine. But you're trying to use two browser engines, which are very different, to support your argument.
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