We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill • Hacker News Board

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#131

Post by logfromblammo » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 6:38 PM UTC

blurbleblurble wrote: post #83

logfromblammo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We may only have hours left to watch elected representation completely ignore the welfare of the electorate again, but we probably still have months left to choose who exactly it is that we will be shoving up against the wall when the revolution comes. At this point, when they obviously don't fear losing their office, they need to fear something else. If you can't bring yourself to do physical violence, you can maybe…

I get that you're angry. That's totally valid. I'm also angry and also have violent fantasies. I'm certain that everyone does, its a psychology fact. But why not channel your destructive urges into dismantling internalized oppression? The ways that you and I go about maintaining these very structures we are each so angry about? I'm a musician. I once played at a fancy downtown club that took my band's working/middle…

What can you do if that fancy club that prefers rich people takes a cut of all your performances, no matter where you play?

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#132

Post by mLuby » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 6:39 PM UTC

mring33621 wrote: post #130

mring33621 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the core of a very interesting idea.

expanding... - call it Automated, Permissioned Grassroots Campaigning - Users permit designated Orgs to post on their behalf on social media and other online forums - Users guide priorities & tone of posts - ML for content generation - Aided by collaborative computer-human workflow

similar idea is https://www.thunderclap.it/howitworks

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#133

Post by mistercow » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 6:39 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #12

Bad tax reform that benefits mostly corporations and the 1% reported by foreign news outlets get flagged here, but talk about a spy group or internet regulation and suddenly politics is fair game. I'm sick of the echo chamber and the pathetic rules of civility strangling human communication, the invisible voting down of opinions people don't like, the moderation filters that carve out a single world view catered to a…

Well, one of those things has to do with technology, and the other one doesn't.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#134

Post by ogdoad » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 6:41 PM UTC

adjkant wrote: post #103

sethgecko wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you implying that the more species in existance the better? If so why?

Do you want to live in a world without any other living things? How many living things do you want? Is life less interesting if there are only two types of living beings? I think that the world as we know it is valuable to us because we enjoy it, and nothing more. If we can't appreciate the beauty of life (most of us can't persist on the pure beauty of mathematics or conceptual analysis), what's the point?

Only two creatures isn't really possible. It isn't even an ecosystem, it's a Game of Life simulation.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#135

Post by ogdoad » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 6:43 PM UTC

mring33621 wrote: post #130

mring33621 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the core of a very interesting idea.

expanding... - call it Automated, Permissioned Grassroots Campaigning - Users permit designated Orgs to post on their behalf on social media and other online forums - Users guide priorities & tone of posts - ML for content generation - Aided by collaborative computer-human workflow

Just to be clear, you _are_ talking about opinion biasing pools here, just on the side of the good guys?

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#136

Post by yndoendo » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 6:44 PM UTC

letsgetphysITal wrote: post #21

iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #5

Is anyone else fatigued? The effort required, ontop of just having a normal functioning life, to parse and make decisions around potential future law is incredible. Isn't this what elected officials are ment to do on our behalf?

Yes, we are all fatigued, and that is how they win. Can't get your Bill through? Rename it and submit again. Still won't work? Tack it onto a Medicaid / NASA funding bill. Still won't get through? Change the wording so that it becomes more vague and open to interpretation in your favour and start again. Bonus points if you give it a name involving patriotism, freedom, economic or personal health, or a backromym that…

This is why I believe all bills should have to state who the authors of the bill where, even if they just fixed an incorrect punctuation or spelling error. We actual do not know who writes the legislation, only who brings it to the table.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#137

Post by microDude » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 6:49 PM UTC

I live in Oregon, where I am pretty sure my representatives will oppose this bill (as they have a history of doing so). What I really want to do is voice my opinion to my old state of Pennsylvania, where I am less confident.

As more people move to where the jobs are at, the country will become more blue/red divided.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#138

Post by colordrops » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 7:03 PM UTC

trisimix wrote: post #11

Is there plan to bombard the american public on so many fronts that they accept mass surveillance? What the actual fuck is wrong with this country.

It seems like it. No one should ever be called a conspiracy nut these days.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#139

Post by mLuby » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 7:22 PM UTC

ogdoad wrote: post #135

mring33621 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

expanding... - call it Automated, Permissioned Grassroots Campaigning - Users permit designated Orgs to post on their behalf on social media and other online forums - Users guide priorities & tone of posts - ML for content generation - Aided by collaborative computer-human workflow

Just to be clear, you _are_ talking about opinion biasing pools here, just on the side of the good guys?

I'd quibble with 'biasing', more like reporting. The bright line between this kind of delegation and FCC-style comment-bots is that each communication still only represents the will of one individual human. Just that they don't have to manually act each time, as they've already made their position clear.

Really it's just about changing EFF's emails from "Act now!" to "We're about to do this on your behalf! (opt out if you want)."

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#140

Post by TheDong » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 7:28 PM UTC

emidln wrote: post #48

tfha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we fight against these patterns? Amendments? Force bills to be broken up? Only allow a bill to be submitted once a decade? Our system is definitely broken, but I have no idea what type of changes might prevent these abuses

Forcing bills to be public and unchanged for a week of consideration before voting would be a good start.

A week? Why not some odd months so those potentially impacted could read and analyze them and submit feedback.