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We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

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Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#101

Post by oceanghost »

sethgecko wrote: post #77
Bartweiss wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes I am. For years, my two biggest spheres of advocacy have been environmentalism and privacy/anti-surveillance. What I've noticed, with that background, is that privacy activism has steadily become more like environmental activism. With rare exceptions (e.g. the ozone layer), environmentalism is an endless, grinding rear-guard action. Extinct species do not become unextinct. Destroyed habitats do not recover,…

Kinda off-topic but 4,500 species are critically endangered right now Based on the fact that more than 99.9% of all the species are now extinct, how is this an alarming sign? It seems like a part of the natural evolutionary process.

I've always thought that about pandas. They dont have a mating instinct and have a very difficult diet in terms of effort required per calorie.

And they're going out of business. Isn't that evolution?

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#102

Post by sethgecko »

Xeoncross wrote: post #98
sethgecko wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda off-topic but 4,500 species are critically endangered right now Based on the fact that more than 99.9% of all the species are now extinct, how is this an alarming sign? It seems like a part of the natural evolutionary process.

> 4,500 species are critically endangered right now How many new species has evolution produced in that time? Zero?

Are you implying that the more species in existance the better? If so why?

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#103

Post by adjkant »

sethgecko wrote: post #102
Xeoncross wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4,500 species are critically endangered right now How many new species has evolution produced in that time? Zero?

Are you implying that the more species in existance the better? If so why?

Do you want to live in a world without any other living things? How many living things do you want? Is life less interesting if there are only two types of living beings?

I think that the world as we know it is valuable to us because we enjoy it, and nothing more. If we can't appreciate the beauty of life (most of us can't persist on the pure beauty of mathematics or conceptual analysis), what's the point?

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#104

Post by r00fus »

letsgetphysITal wrote: post #21
iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #5

Is anyone else fatigued? The effort required, ontop of just having a normal functioning life, to parse and make decisions around potential future law is incredible. Isn't this what elected officials are ment to do on our behalf?

Yes, we are all fatigued, and that is how they win. Can't get your Bill through? Rename it and submit again. Still won't work? Tack it onto a Medicaid / NASA funding bill. Still won't get through? Change the wording so that it becomes more vague and open to interpretation in your favour and start again. Bonus points if you give it a name involving patriotism, freedom, economic or personal health, or a backromym that…

There is no real cost to keep on trying. It's like a forum without moderation.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#105

Post by kzrdude »

iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #5

Is anyone else fatigued? The effort required, ontop of just having a normal functioning life, to parse and make decisions around potential future law is incredible. Isn't this what elected officials are ment to do on our behalf?

You need to work on the deeper roots of the problem. Campaign finance in Congress is the big one. It blocks common sense reform on the left and the right.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#106

Post by Bartweiss »

oceanghost wrote: post #101
sethgecko wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda off-topic but 4,500 species are critically endangered right now Based on the fact that more than 99.9% of all the species are now extinct, how is this an alarming sign? It seems like a part of the natural evolutionary process.

I've always thought that about pandas. They dont have a mating instinct and have a very difficult diet in terms of effort required per calorie. And they're going out of business. Isn't that evolution?

An interesting read on this: https://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/3azkqx/til_na...

The short version - pandas are just find for their habitats, and aren't going out of business.

The traits of pandas sound odd, but they're actually common to lots of highly-successful animals. They mate just fine in the wild and are bulk feeders that can easily consume lots of low-efficiency food. Their population hasn't been in any kind of steady decline, but has plummeted twice, each time when large portions of their habitat were destroyed.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#107

Post by logfromblammo »

giardini wrote: post #67
logfromblammo wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shut the water off. There won't be enough cooling for the servers. Maybe shoot a hole in the bottom of a big, oil-filled transformer at the nearest power substation.

This is at least the second post on this topic in which logfromblammo has suggested that people perform criminal acts. (S)he earlier suggested keying cars and cutting tires. Those are simply wrong and criminal.

Certainly criminal. Wrong is an ethical judgment that is up to the individual.

"Tit-for-tat" strategy tends to beat "always cooperate" strategy in simplified social gaming models. People who always obey all laws, regardless of circumstances, are chumps who will inevitably be exploited by those who write the laws and those who selectively enforce them. In general, the law exists for the protection of everyone in society, but there exist exceptions when breaking the law is the right thing to do.

Peaceful, lawful protest is no longer protecting minority voter blocs. Continuing to do it in the expectation that it will eventually work is just as insane as implementing trickle-down economic policy for the Nth time and expecting that it will benefit the middle class this time, when it failed to do so the previous N-1 times.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#108

Post by zhengyi13 »

oceanghost wrote: post #101
sethgecko wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kinda off-topic but 4,500 species are critically endangered right now Based on the fact that more than 99.9% of all the species are now extinct, how is this an alarming sign? It seems like a part of the natural evolutionary process.

I've always thought that about pandas. They dont have a mating instinct and have a very difficult diet in terms of effort required per calorie. And they're going out of business. Isn't that evolution?

I realize Reddit comments are not generally citation worthy, but maybe read this one, and rethink what you've just posted?

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2rmf6h/til_t...

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#109

Post by snerbles »

whatshisface wrote: post #79
Bartweiss wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes I am. For years, my two biggest spheres of advocacy have been environmentalism and privacy/anti-surveillance. What I've noticed, with that background, is that privacy activism has steadily become more like environmental activism. With rare exceptions (e.g. the ozone layer), environmentalism is an endless, grinding rear-guard action. Extinct species do not become unextinct. Destroyed habitats do not recover,…

Maybe we'll end up with a new political subculture that derives pride and some sense of personal identity from fighting this stuff; just like gun people almost enjoy supporting the NRA. (In some way I think computer rights would be a lot more fun to support if a large fraction of the public was against it, then we would have the satisfaction of arguing.)

To be fair, a large fraction of the public does subscribe to the notion of "I have nothing to hide, so mass surveillance is OK".

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#110

Post by burkaman »

sethgecko wrote: post #77
Bartweiss wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes I am. For years, my two biggest spheres of advocacy have been environmentalism and privacy/anti-surveillance. What I've noticed, with that background, is that privacy activism has steadily become more like environmental activism. With rare exceptions (e.g. the ozone layer), environmentalism is an endless, grinding rear-guard action. Extinct species do not become unextinct. Destroyed habitats do not recover,…

Kinda off-topic but 4,500 species are critically endangered right now Based on the fact that more than 99.9% of all the species are now extinct, how is this an alarming sign? It seems like a part of the natural evolutionary process.

Natural doesn't mean good. Climate change is natural in that humans arose naturally and have mostly followed our instincts. What we care about is keeping the environment in a state that works for us, not just letting natural processes play out.
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