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We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

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Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#21

Post by letsgetphysITal »

iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #5

Is anyone else fatigued? The effort required, ontop of just having a normal functioning life, to parse and make decisions around potential future law is incredible. Isn't this what elected officials are ment to do on our behalf?

Yes, we are all fatigued, and that is how they win. Can't get your Bill through? Rename it and submit again. Still won't work? Tack it onto a Medicaid / NASA funding bill. Still won't get through? Change the wording so that it becomes more vague and open to interpretation in your favour and start again.

Bonus points if you give it a name involving patriotism, freedom, economic or personal health, or a backromym that spells out the same.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#22

Post by tfha »

letsgetphysITal wrote: post #21
iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #5

Is anyone else fatigued? The effort required, ontop of just having a normal functioning life, to parse and make decisions around potential future law is incredible. Isn't this what elected officials are ment to do on our behalf?

Yes, we are all fatigued, and that is how they win. Can't get your Bill through? Rename it and submit again. Still won't work? Tack it onto a Medicaid / NASA funding bill. Still won't get through? Change the wording so that it becomes more vague and open to interpretation in your favour and start again. Bonus points if you give it a name involving patriotism, freedom, economic or personal health, or a backromym that…

How can we fight against these patterns? Amendments? Force bills to be broken up? Only allow a bill to be submitted once a decade?

Our system is definitely broken, but I have no idea what type of changes might prevent these abuses

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#23

Post by chimeracoder »

archvile wrote: post #16
CWuestefeld wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just plan on waiting it out for the next 4 years. You're not thinking that if the Democrats manage to take the White House, that this situation will improve - are you? I mean, most of this damage was done when Pres. Obama was in the White House and the Congress skewed more toward Democrats. The idea that the Democrats will defend our privacy and 4th Amendment is absurd.

Exactly. Three letter agency abilities were expanded hugely under Obama. Why people can’t grasp this, I’ll never know.

> Exactly. Three letter agency abilities were expanded hugely under Obama. Why people can’t grasp this, I’ll never know.

Partisanship is one hell of a drug.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#24

Post by FLUX-YOU »

tfha wrote: post #22
letsgetphysITal wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, we are all fatigued, and that is how they win. Can't get your Bill through? Rename it and submit again. Still won't work? Tack it onto a Medicaid / NASA funding bill. Still won't get through? Change the wording so that it becomes more vague and open to interpretation in your favour and start again. Bonus points if you give it a name involving patriotism, freedom, economic or personal health, or a backromym that…

How can we fight against these patterns? Amendments? Force bills to be broken up? Only allow a bill to be submitted once a decade? Our system is definitely broken, but I have no idea what type of changes might prevent these abuses

>How can we fight against these patterns?

Elect enough people willing to self-regulate and pass those bills. The current climate with lobbying money won't ever pass something like that.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#25

Post by chimeracoder »

mtgx wrote: post #17
trisimix wrote: post #11

Is there plan to bombard the american public on so many fronts that they accept mass surveillance? What the actual fuck is wrong with this country.

And FISA reauthorization always happens a few days before Christmas. Californians, remember to vote Feinstein out in the Democratic primary . She's been one of the main champions of this bill and type of mass surveillance (as well as the anti-encryption bills, which she's not giving up). It's probably one of the reasons why she decided to go back on her promise not to run again, so she can pass it once more in a few…

> Californians, remember to vote Feinstein out in the Democratic primary. She's been one of the main champions of this bill and type of mass surveillance (as well as the anti-encryption bills, which she's not giving up).

Senate Minority Leader Schumer has been the other main proponent. Unfortunately, New York is not really a democracy, so there is no way for us to get rid of him.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#26

Post by aaronbrethorst »

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #24
tfha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we fight against these patterns? Amendments? Force bills to be broken up? Only allow a bill to be submitted once a decade? Our system is definitely broken, but I have no idea what type of changes might prevent these abuses

>How can we fight against these patterns? Elect enough people willing to self-regulate and pass those bills. The current climate with lobbying money won't ever pass something like that.

What do lobbyists have to do with the NSA?

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#27

Post by pixl97 »

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #14
trisimix wrote: post #11

Is there plan to bombard the american public on so many fronts that they accept mass surveillance? What the actual fuck is wrong with this country.

That's exactly it. It's also pretty hilarious that the GOP is trying to extend the FBI's power and oversight - given the current situation with their dear leader.

Step 1: expand power - in progress.

Step 2: corrupt power - well it isn't like the FBI hasn't done that in the past.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#28

Post by FLUX-YOU »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #26
FLUX-YOU wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How can we fight against these patterns? Elect enough people willing to self-regulate and pass those bills. The current climate with lobbying money won't ever pass something like that.

What do lobbyists have to do with the NSA?

It wasn't a comment about lobbying for NSA expansion specifically, but I imagine there's plenty of companies who would benefit from NSA expansion that provide services to the US government.

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#29

Post by [deleted] »

aaronbrethorst wrote: post #26
FLUX-YOU wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How can we fight against these patterns? Elect enough people willing to self-regulate and pass those bills. The current climate with lobbying money won't ever pass something like that.

What do lobbyists have to do with the NSA?

[deleted]

Re: We Only Have Hours Left to Stop the NSA Expansion Bill

#30

Post by matte_black »

nerdponx wrote: post #19
d33 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your threat model? Unless you name what you're afraid of and what you're trying to hide, you're just feeding paranoia and it's unhealthy. And I'm not trying to say you should do nothing - the steps you suggest would at the very least increase the cost for NSA to collect data, potentially making it scale less or even make you fly under the radar. Still, if you want those rather uncomfortable actions to become h…

I have a deep moral opposition to this kind of spying, and making it more difficult is an end in and of itself. I also don't consider them terribly uncomfortable, but that is my opinion and no one else's. I also personally would prefer not to be spied on. I do not want my day-to-day activities monitored by anyone but myself. In the event that the government starts curtailing freedoms or particular kinds of behavior a…

Well it’s time to ask yourself, are those morals and values worth sacrificing your comfort, your sanity, and maybe even your life? Which do you value more?
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