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2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

bugs.winehq.org

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Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#71

Post by web007 »

uhhhhhhh wrote: post #41
pjc50 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I skimmed it and saw at least two attempts that were backed out for various reasons.

From a rudimentary reading. They introduced a state cache to fix conditions where applications poll continuously for certain states (mouse button press for example). This wasn't thread safe however, and multi-threaded applications could get a previous/incorrect state back from the cache and stop functioning as intended. This was highly visible for photoshop tools where you click and hold, as the separate mouse poller…

> Regressions tend to be high priority for the devs though so this will be fixed eventually.

"eventually" is right...

This seems to be a failure on the part of the devs to prioritize. AFAIK code that causes a regression should be reverted and fixed properly, not left affecting the product for FIVE YEARS before finding a fix. The burden can not be on every use case to work around a bug that was introduced, the core "fix" is clearly a half-fix and should have been reverted on identification.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#72

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

adrianN wrote: post #69
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Package managers are a much more efficient way to download and install software than any way I have seen on Windows. Package managers are probably my second least favorite thing about using Linux as a desktop (the Linux Desktop community would be the first by a wide margin). Package managers, as implemented, are a horrible mechanism for software installation. They have all the problems of walled garden app stores…

They also have the benefit of walled-garden appstores: Users don't have to care about all of the things you mentioned. If I want to use Thunderbird I just apt-get install it. Normal users almost never want two versions of the same program, and they don't make install either. I've never seen a corrupted package database. I have seen lots of software on Windows that couldn't be properly deinstalled for some reason or o…

Typical Linux community response:

"Normal users don't need that." "I've never seen it, therefore it isn't a problem."

You want to talk up a system for being stable, malleable, and under the user's control, then you pull out lame excuses like that. It's no wonder Windows still kicks the Linux Desktop's ass in the market even with all its crap and having to pay for it.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#73

Post by cesarb »

kogepathic wrote: post #54
Fnoord wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hyper-V can run a full-blown Linux kernel + OS with virtually no performance loss compared to native (on recent x86-64 hardware). There's also Windows Subsystem for Linux. You can get a full-blown OS like Ubuntu or SuSE that way. Well, that is, sans Linux kernel and sans X11.

> There's also Windows Subsystem for Linux. You can get a full-blown OS like Ubuntu or SuSE that way. Well, that is, sans Linux kernel and sans X11. You can use X11 applications if you install an X11 agent in Windows such as Xming. But it's not pleasant. I don't know if it's WSL or Xming at fault, but 2D performance in X is pretty abysmal. I've run applications like gedit and evince on WSL with Xming. It's also fairl…

> I don't know if it's WSL or Xming at fault, but 2D performance in X is pretty abysmal.

Xming probably isn't using the X shared memory extension, so everything has to be serialized and sent through the socket.

> It's also fairly annoying that you cannot print from WSL applications

Can't you configure cups within WSL to print to a network printer, and export the printer from Windows as a network printer?

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#74

Post by adrianN »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #72
adrianN wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also have the benefit of walled-garden appstores: Users don't have to care about all of the things you mentioned. If I want to use Thunderbird I just apt-get install it. Normal users almost never want two versions of the same program, and they don't make install either. I've never seen a corrupted package database. I have seen lots of software on Windows that couldn't be properly deinstalled for some reason or o…

Typical Linux community response: "Normal users don't need that." "I've never seen it, therefore it isn't a problem." You want to talk up a system for being stable, malleable, and under the user's control, then you pull out lame excuses like that. It's no wonder Windows still kicks the Linux Desktop's ass in the market even with all its crap and having to pay for it.

I'm just thinking about the needs of my friends and family. I still recommend Windows to them, but the lack of a package manager is definitely an argument against Windows.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#75

Post by Houshalter »

tambourine_man wrote: post #31

Post like that brings me back to earth every time I dream of running Linux only. I commend the work of everyone involved, people working for free on their spare time for the common benefit is great. But celebrating CS5 compatibility in late 2017… it's sobering.

Emulation is still a very hard problem in computer science. We may never get a proper xbox emulator. And more obscure consoles are doomed to be forgotten. Emulating Windows is a bit easier because it's on the same hardware, but it's still never going to be perfect.

That said, so what? It's cool that you can use Windows software on Linux. But even without that it's still a perfectly usable OS.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#76

Post by ravenstine »

rayalez wrote: post #37

I'm pretty happy with the way CS6 works with PlayOnLinux(Ubuntu 16.04, Wine 1.7.24-CS-0.9.1-DXHR). It's not perfect, but I have no problem getting the work done (mostly design). I wouldn't use it for drawing/painting though. If you're interested in doing digital art on linux - I highly recommend checking out Krita. I've discovered it a year ago and was blown away, if you're an artist - it does everything you may need…

Maya definitely works, but I've always needed to create symbolic links and other tweaks for it to work on non-fedora distrust. Can also confirm that Nuke works great on Linux, if you can afford the price tag.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#77

Post by zakk »

Houshalter wrote: post #75
tambourine_man wrote: post #31

Post like that brings me back to earth every time I dream of running Linux only. I commend the work of everyone involved, people working for free on their spare time for the common benefit is great. But celebrating CS5 compatibility in late 2017… it's sobering.

Emulation is still a very hard problem in computer science. We may never get a proper xbox emulator. And more obscure consoles are doomed to be forgotten. Emulating Windows is a bit easier because it's on the same hardware, but it's still never going to be perfect. That said, so what? It's cool that you can use Windows software on Linux. But even without that it's still a perfectly usable OS.

> And more obscure consoles are doomed to be forgotten.

That’s why projects like MAME are very important.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#78

Post by wiz21c »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #68
wiz21c wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> Why would they switch to Windows? What I love with my Linux is the total control I have over it. I can customize many things, have my own desktop environment while leaving other members of the family with KDE. I can update what I want, install apps with "aptitude" super easily and nobody ever asks me for my position, my age, phone number or email. Life is sooo quiet on my Linux. (Linux "breaks" (more exactly, use…

To be fair, Linux the kernel almost never breaks userland stuff. That's the fault of Linux distributions (and glibc), and Linus has bitched them out over it several times, not that they listen.

You're right. I meant that Linux kernel seems super solid to me but applications running on Linux are not always that stable.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#79

Post by tambourine_man »

uhhhhhhh wrote: post #39
tambourine_man wrote: post #31

Post like that brings me back to earth every time I dream of running Linux only. I commend the work of everyone involved, people working for free on their spare time for the common benefit is great. But celebrating CS5 compatibility in late 2017… it's sobering.

To be fair, this is not for CS5 compatibility specifically (that was one of the more visible impacted apps), but multi-threaded applications that continuously poll for mouse state against a non-thread safe state-cache introduced in an earlier version. Also wine is not linux, and photoshop is not a linux program. If you want to run Linux only, then alternatives like krita, gimp etc.. exist that work natively. While I…

Unfortunatly, there are no serious Photoshop alternatives. On any platform. It's very sad, but true.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#80

Post by fallingfrog »

userbinator wrote: post #44

Consider this an "outside opinion" from an external developer, but my first impression upon reading the thread is that I think the whole design of "key state caching" is wrong and a symptom of a bigger problem. Apps are polling GetAsyncKeyState() for good reason --- because they want that low-latency responsiveness which is important in situations like drawing with the mouse. Adding a cache defeats that, hence leadin…

"they want that low-latency responsiveness which is important in situations like drawing with the mouse"

Yes to this in general, not just with mouse polling- I've noticed a disturbing trend towards more and more buffering, caching, and latency in a lot of modern software and hardware. In my humble opinion, if your API/interface can't match the response time of the human nervous system, then it's just flat out broken. Nerves fire at 100 hz, for pete's sake. Transistors operate on a gigahertz level. Let's get our sh together, people.

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