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2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

bugs.winehq.org

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Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#61

Post by wiz21c »

progman wrote: post #58
tambourine_man wrote: post #31

Post like that brings me back to earth every time I dream of running Linux only. I commend the work of everyone involved, people working for free on their spare time for the common benefit is great. But celebrating CS5 compatibility in late 2017… it's sobering.

> Post like that brings me back to earth every time I dream of running Linux only. It's not a Linux problem, it's a Windows emulation problem in Wine. As for Linux, I'm using it for 25+ years, and I ditched Windows 10+ years ago. Windows is not necessary to do stuff. However, if you vitally depend on CS5 then running CS5 in emulation is not the best idea. At least you can use it properly in a PC emulator like VMware…

been using it for 22 years and ditched Windows some 15 years ago at home. Unfortunately, I use my work PC a lot and that's Windows...

now, I do mostly web and dev, so Linux is a sweet spot there...

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#62

Post by laumars »

Fnoord wrote: post #22
martin_andrino wrote: post #5

I still wonder why Wine exists at all given that Windows 10 is an excellent OS - definitely more secure than their counterparts, and completely free.

I'll bite. Ignoring the obvious bait it is an interesting question. Windows 10, by default, comes with Microsoft spyware (or settings) which one has to remove. Running Windows 10 native isn't always possible or desirable. You can run WINE (and CrossOver, the commercial 'version' of WINE) on any platform including Linux (e.g. Ubuntu), macOS, and [recently] ChromeOS. Its also being used in more obscure OSes like *BSD a…

> One could even run WINE on say a Raspberry Pi, together with QEMU.

I've seen retro gamers do just this for old Windows games thus saving them having to running a massively outdated and insecure version of Windows on custom built arcade cabs.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#63

Post by wiz21c »

microtonal wrote: post #11
martin_andrino wrote: post #5

I still wonder why Wine exists at all given that Windows 10 is an excellent OS - definitely more secure than their counterparts, and completely free.

Besides Windows 10 telemetry being a privacy invasion, there are people who just prefer Linux or another Unix-like. Why would they switch to Windows? E.g. take me. I have used UNIX in some shape or form since 1994. I do not have anything against Windows. Technically the NT kernel is a marvel of engineering. But my brain is just fundamentally incompatible with Windows. The UNIX shell is ingrained, vim keys are ingrain…

>>> Why would they switch to Windows?

What I love with my Linux is the total control I have over it. I can customize many things, have my own desktop environment while leaving other members of the family with KDE. I can update what I want, install apps with "aptitude" super easily and nobody ever asks me for my position, my age, phone number or email. Life is sooo quiet on my Linux.

(Linux "breaks" (more exactly, userland stuff) more often than windows, but when it breaks I can do something about it and learn a thing or two while I fix it).

Plus the community is vibrant.

I'm lovin' it :-)

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#64

Post by pjc50 »

userbinator wrote: post #44

Consider this an "outside opinion" from an external developer, but my first impression upon reading the thread is that I think the whole design of "key state caching" is wrong and a symptom of a bigger problem. Apps are polling GetAsyncKeyState() for good reason --- because they want that low-latency responsiveness which is important in situations like drawing with the mouse. Adding a cache defeats that, hence leadin…

The architecture is inherently different: it works fine in Windows because there's only one canonical key state and the operating system is looking after it.

Wine, on the other hand, is running within X Windows, and the canonical key state belongs to X. It's in a different process and it might even be on a different computer. So either they have to poll it (slowly), arrange for asynchronous notifications (may not be possible and undoubtedly has similar conflicts with synchronous access), or poll it a limited amount and then cache it.

The whole point of Wine is adapting one API to a fundamentally different one. It is the added layer of complexity.

Edit: another discussion suggests the X by design does not allow an application to see keystrokes aimed at another window, nor is there a global hook mechanism.

https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5623

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#65

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Fnoord wrote: post #27
Jetroid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a very naive view to me. This attack on Wine is by extension an attack on Linux, or otherwise I don't understand it. Wine exists for convenience for Linux users to use Software that has not been made available on Linux. Some advantages of Linux: * Can choose from a variety of window managers to suit your needs, from windows-like (Chalet, Zorin), to developer focussed (eg i3) * Linux is free. Windows 1…

The "for free" offer was temporary, and has expired . That is what matters. It even worked on pirated versions. You could even upgrade say your Windows XP to a later version (pirated or not) and then upgrade to Windows 10, for free. You get a valid license that way. You paid 2-fold: one, you were an early adopter and therefore beta tester. Two, you paid with your privacy. The anti-spyware toolkits to remove the telem…

> Microsoft could've adopted Bash but they went with Powershell instead.

Because Powershell is a better designed, more powerful, saner implementation of the original Unix philosophy of having small tools that do one thing well and combine easily to do complicated tasks. Bash and coretools are primitive bullshit by comparison.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#66

Post by nerdponx »

b15h0p wrote: post #60

Slightly off topic: Does anyone here have CS6 running on the macOS >= Sierra? I was only able to find information that this is not possible because the launcher requires Java and Apple removed the JRE from macOS.

It's pretty easy to install Java on Mac.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#67

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

Jetroid wrote: post #24
martin_andrino wrote: post #5

I still wonder why Wine exists at all given that Windows 10 is an excellent OS - definitely more secure than their counterparts, and completely free.

This seems like a very naive view to me. This attack on Wine is by extension an attack on Linux, or otherwise I don't understand it. Wine exists for convenience for Linux users to use Software that has not been made available on Linux. Some advantages of Linux: * Can choose from a variety of window managers to suit your needs, from windows-like (Chalet, Zorin), to developer focussed (eg i3) * Linux is free. Windows 1…

> * Package managers are a much more efficient way to download and install software than any way I have seen on Windows.

Package managers are probably my second least favorite thing about using Linux as a desktop (the Linux Desktop community would be the first by a wide margin). Package managers, as implemented, are a horrible mechanism for software installation. They have all the problems of walled garden app stores, shared namespaces, and the registry. Ever see a package manager database get corrupted? Good luck ever fixing that. Want to install two different versions of the same application? Too bad, unless they're different enough that the repo maintainers decided they were separate software (only python 2/3 comes to mind). How about installing software to a different path? Nope, sorry. Good luck with make install.

There are even Linux developers sane enough to realize that this is silly, which is why you have things like AppImage. Not that more than a handful of applications are distributed that way, because Linux people quite often mistake tradition for wisdom. Oh, and the little problem of Linux not having a defined base system you can rely on.

Installers/uninstallers aren't any better, but they're only worse in different ways. That's why there's Portable Apps.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#68

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

wiz21c wrote: post #63
microtonal wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides Windows 10 telemetry being a privacy invasion, there are people who just prefer Linux or another Unix-like. Why would they switch to Windows? E.g. take me. I have used UNIX in some shape or form since 1994. I do not have anything against Windows. Technically the NT kernel is a marvel of engineering. But my brain is just fundamentally incompatible with Windows. The UNIX shell is ingrained, vim keys are ingrain…

>>> Why would they switch to Windows? What I love with my Linux is the total control I have over it. I can customize many things, have my own desktop environment while leaving other members of the family with KDE. I can update what I want, install apps with "aptitude" super easily and nobody ever asks me for my position, my age, phone number or email. Life is sooo quiet on my Linux. (Linux "breaks" (more exactly, use…

To be fair, Linux the kernel almost never breaks userland stuff. That's the fault of Linux distributions (and glibc), and Linus has bitched them out over it several times, not that they listen.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#69

Post by adrianN »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #67
Jetroid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a very naive view to me. This attack on Wine is by extension an attack on Linux, or otherwise I don't understand it. Wine exists for convenience for Linux users to use Software that has not been made available on Linux. Some advantages of Linux: * Can choose from a variety of window managers to suit your needs, from windows-like (Chalet, Zorin), to developer focussed (eg i3) * Linux is free. Windows 1…

> * Package managers are a much more efficient way to download and install software than any way I have seen on Windows. Package managers are probably my second least favorite thing about using Linux as a desktop (the Linux Desktop community would be the first by a wide margin). Package managers, as implemented, are a horrible mechanism for software installation. They have all the problems of walled garden app stores…

They also have the benefit of walled-garden appstores: Users don't have to care about all of the things you mentioned. If I want to use Thunderbird I just apt-get install it. Normal users almost never want two versions of the same program, and they don't make install either.

I've never seen a corrupted package database. I have seen lots of software on Windows that couldn't be properly deinstalled for some reason or other though.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#70

Post by iliketosleep »

tambourine_man wrote: post #31

Post like that brings me back to earth every time I dream of running Linux only. I commend the work of everyone involved, people working for free on their spare time for the common benefit is great. But celebrating CS5 compatibility in late 2017… it's sobering.

Yes, it took them literally years to fix it and it wasn't a particularly difficult fix. That's why companies prefer paid software - if something doesn't work, they can complain to the company and the company is obliged to fix it... as opposed to waiting years for the right volunteer developer to prioritize one of many issues.
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