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2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

bugs.winehq.org

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Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#41

Post by uhhhhhhh »

pjc50 wrote: post #25
fps_doug wrote: post #17

Too bad I don't have the time to read the long comment thread on there right now. Hopefully I will remember to do so after work. :) Instances like this are really interesting to me, as it seems early on in the thread the commit the broke Photoshop was identified, yet it took them 5 years to finally commit a fix. From the outside it's easy to say the wine devs are lazy/stupid for not having fixed it right away, but I…

I skimmed it and saw at least two attempts that were backed out for various reasons.

From a rudimentary reading.

They introduced a state cache to fix conditions where applications poll continuously for certain states (mouse button press for example). This wasn't thread safe however, and multi-threaded applications could get a previous/incorrect state back from the cache and stop functioning as intended. This was highly visible for photoshop tools where you click and hold, as the separate mouse poller thread would get a state of 'button not clicked" and stop, or in some cases start/stop repeatedly giving a series of dots instead of a line.

The patches submitted early were to disable the global cache, which while it fixed the multi-threaded use cases didn't fix the high-polling rate issue that the global cache was attempting to fix.

The fix, years later, was to look at the global cache when changing state and invalidate it at the time of state change so any immediate calls to retrieve that state from the cache will not get the previous cached state.

There was also another issue that came up in the middle of that thread that was unrelated it seems.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#42

Post by vetinari »

Const-me wrote: post #38
vetinari wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hyper-V can run a full-blown Linux kernel + OS with virtually no performance loss compared to native That's true only for CPU scheduling, or losing CPU performance. For I/O, that's not true.

It’s also true for IO, networking, and since recently even for GPUs. Intel’s VT-d & VT-c, AMD’s Vi.

When did that happen? I have a machine, that I'm going to switch from hyper-v to esxi, because the IO is abysmal.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#43

Post by notrly »

uhhhhhhh wrote: post #39
tambourine_man wrote: post #31

Post like that brings me back to earth every time I dream of running Linux only. I commend the work of everyone involved, people working for free on their spare time for the common benefit is great. But celebrating CS5 compatibility in late 2017… it's sobering.

To be fair, this is not for CS5 compatibility specifically (that was one of the more visible impacted apps), but multi-threaded applications that continuously poll for mouse state against a non-thread safe state-cache introduced in an earlier version. Also wine is not linux, and photoshop is not a linux program. If you want to run Linux only, then alternatives like krita, gimp etc.. exist that work natively. While I…

> alternatives

Don't know about Krita, but Gimp still (?) has no good CMYK support, so buh bai printing industry. Not an alternative.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#44

Post by userbinator »

Consider this an "outside opinion" from an external developer, but my first impression upon reading the thread is that I think the whole design of "key state caching" is wrong and a symptom of a bigger problem.

Apps are polling GetAsyncKeyState() for good reason --- because they want that low-latency responsiveness which is important in situations like drawing with the mouse. Adding a cache defeats that, hence leading to bugs like this one. If your API implementation is slow, then profile and figure out how to make it faster because it obviously works fine in Windows.

As the saying goes, "Never add another layer of complexity when your problem can be solved by removing and/or optimising the existing ones."

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#45

Post by mrighele »

userbinator wrote: post #36
Fnoord wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "for free" offer was temporary, and has expired . That is what matters. It even worked on pirated versions. You could even upgrade say your Windows XP to a later version (pirated or not) and then upgrade to Windows 10, for free. You get a valid license that way. You paid 2-fold: one, you were an early adopter and therefore beta tester. Two, you paid with your privacy. The anti-spyware toolkits to remove the telem…

Win10 is still ridiculously easy to pirate, and the "assistive technology loophole" remains open. I don't think this is accidental, especially after all the underhanded tactics MS was using in an attempt to force everyone to upgrade. They probably figured monetising your personal data was worth far more than just selling Win10 licenses.

I think it is more about getting as much users as possible to use their store and the Windows 10 ecosystem, where they are probably planning to get most of the money (and use part of that to fund Windows development)

(Yes, Windows 8 has the store too, but I think that there are a number of difference that makes the distinction relevant)

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#46

Post by uhhhhhhh »

Fnoord wrote: post #27
Jetroid wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a very naive view to me. This attack on Wine is by extension an attack on Linux, or otherwise I don't understand it. Wine exists for convenience for Linux users to use Software that has not been made available on Linux. Some advantages of Linux: * Can choose from a variety of window managers to suit your needs, from windows-like (Chalet, Zorin), to developer focussed (eg i3) * Linux is free. Windows 1…

The "for free" offer was temporary, and has expired . That is what matters. It even worked on pirated versions. You could even upgrade say your Windows XP to a later version (pirated or not) and then upgrade to Windows 10, for free. You get a valid license that way. You paid 2-fold: one, you were an early adopter and therefore beta tester. Two, you paid with your privacy. The anti-spyware toolkits to remove the telem…

The free upgrade was to gain critical mass for the upgrade, they learned with vista, 8/8.1 that users were happy with xp/7 and wouldn't pay to change, even with LTS running out. Free upgrade was a way to convince a lot of those people to upgrade. I wouldn't compare it to Linux being free in any way.

Microsoft needs to reboot to do most of its updates of its own tools, not because of badly programmed 3rd party apps but its own badly programmed apps. Out of the box with no additional software it still needs to reboot, it also takes forever, hijacks reboots without the users ability to override (sometimes for 30-60 minutes while it tries to install updates). Linux only needs to reboot for kernel upgrades, and even that isn't a full requirement (there are ways, but they aren't worth it, to load a new kernel without rebooting).

Windows store is very far from anything like a linux package manager, and it ties you into their ecosystem without extensibility. Same with Apple. Linux package management is extensible and controllable (get packages from these sources, not those, blacklist this version, etc...) so I wouldn't consider them anywhere remotely equivalent.

The obvious/known privacy issues in windows 10 can be disabled, but the fact the user has to know about find and run third party, reasonably advanced tools/scripts to stop the operating system from spying and advertising to you is absolutely not acceptable from my perspective.

I guess sometimes nuance needs to be more nuanced

For the record I use osx/linux for work, linux/windows at home. Windows only for games that don't work on linux yet.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#47

Post by Const-me »

vetinari wrote: post #42
Const-me wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also true for IO, networking, and since recently even for GPUs. Intel’s VT-d & VT-c, AMD’s Vi.

When did that happen? I have a machine, that I'm going to switch from hyper-v to esxi, because the IO is abysmal.

It happened quite long ago, most Intel CPUs have VT-d since Nehalem (first gen of core i-s, 2008).

However, even for modern systems, not all motherboards supports that. Also sometimes the setting is disabled by default in BIOS/UEFI.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#48

Post by Fnoord »

userbinator wrote: post #36
Fnoord wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "for free" offer was temporary, and has expired . That is what matters. It even worked on pirated versions. You could even upgrade say your Windows XP to a later version (pirated or not) and then upgrade to Windows 10, for free. You get a valid license that way. You paid 2-fold: one, you were an early adopter and therefore beta tester. Two, you paid with your privacy. The anti-spyware toolkits to remove the telem…

Win10 is still ridiculously easy to pirate, and the "assistive technology loophole" remains open. I don't think this is accidental, especially after all the underhanded tactics MS was using in an attempt to force everyone to upgrade. They probably figured monetising your personal data was worth far more than just selling Win10 licenses.

> They probably figured monetising your personal data was worth far more than just selling Win10 licenses.

That plus the people who run older versions of Windows already paid for it. If they're pirated they didn't paid for it, but its unlikely they will and they didn't pay the PII tax either.

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#49

Post by majewsky »

userbinator wrote: post #44

Consider this an "outside opinion" from an external developer, but my first impression upon reading the thread is that I think the whole design of "key state caching" is wrong and a symptom of a bigger problem. Apps are polling GetAsyncKeyState() for good reason --- because they want that low-latency responsiveness which is important in situations like drawing with the mouse. Adding a cache defeats that, hence leadin…

I thought the saying goes, "Every problem can be solved by adding another abstraction, except the problem of too many layers of abstraction." ;)

Re: 2012 Wine bug "Drawing in Photoshop CS5 is almost impossible" now fixed

#50

Post by Fnoord »

vetinari wrote: post #42
Const-me wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also true for IO, networking, and since recently even for GPUs. Intel’s VT-d & VT-c, AMD’s Vi.

When did that happen? I have a machine, that I'm going to switch from hyper-v to esxi, because the IO is abysmal.

ESXi uses the same hardware features as Hyper-V.
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