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WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

reuters.com

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Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#121
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per European Privacy Law, you only own the data for the specific use-cases that you asked it for in your terms of use / privacy policy. I agreed to that when signing up. If you change that in the future, you have to ask for my consent again. If I deny, then you cannot use my data for your new use-case.

Is the revision opt in (express permission required, by default you do not agree)? Or is it opt out (by default you agree, unless you expressly refuse)? In the U.S. terms of service are usually the latter. You'll get a notification of revised terms, and you can refuse. But as a consequence every company I'm aware of will then terminate service. Examples include insurance, banks, and (perhaps infamously) iTunes which…

From EU Regulation 2016/679: (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX...)

(32) Consent should be given by a clear affirmative act establishing a freely given, specific, informed and unambiguous indication of the data subject's agreement to the processing of personal data relating to him or her, such as by a written statement, including by electronic means, or an oral statement. This could include ticking a box when visiting an internet website, choosing technical settings for information society services or another statement or conduct which clearly indicates in this context the data subject's acceptance of the proposed processing of his or her personal data. Silence, pre-ticked boxes or inactivity should not therefore constitute consent. Consent should cover all processing activities carried out for the same purpose or purposes. When the processing has multiple purposes, consent should be given for all of them. If the data subject's consent is to be given following a request by electronic means, the request must be clear, concise and not unnecessarily disruptive to the use of the service for which it is provided.

(42) Where processing is based on the data subject's consent, the controller should be able to demonstrate that the data subject has given consent to the processing operation.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#122
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per European Privacy Law, you only own the data for the specific use-cases that you asked it for in your terms of use / privacy policy. I agreed to that when signing up. If you change that in the future, you have to ask for my consent again. If I deny, then you cannot use my data for your new use-case.

Is the revision opt in (express permission required, by default you do not agree)? Or is it opt out (by default you agree, unless you expressly refuse)? In the U.S. terms of service are usually the latter. You'll get a notification of revised terms, and you can refuse. But as a consequence every company I'm aware of will then terminate service. Examples include insurance, banks, and (perhaps infamously) iTunes which…

Your case is not opt-in, the user doesn't have a choice. It's accept the new conditions or get forcefully terminated.

That's enough to deny the claims, which is what is happening here.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Signal but the reason why WhatsApp is so appealing is that there's a desktop client. I hate having to rely on my phone for texting people.

Telegram is even better, has a nice desktop client which doesn't really depend on the mobile . Whatsapp's web client is just an UI to the mobile app meaning you also need to have phone connected to internet always for it to work. Telegram is much more responsive compared to the Whatsapp.

But isn't Telegram universally recognized as being not really secure? At least that's what I remember from every mention of it on HN over the past year or two.

I'm a Telegram user (because network effects) and I agree it's a fast, slick app with both good mobile app and web interface, but I do not expect it to be secure.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much they can do against tech behemoths based in the US though. They can stop them from gathering EU citizen data, or at least approve laws that try to stop them but who knows what is really happening behind the scenes.

I believe if EU's laws are widely publicized and proved to be useful in EU countries, then there can be enough political pressure in the US. A tangential, but political relevant point: tech companies are in a particularly bad spot in the US because they are hated by both sides; republicans hate them because they are perceived as having liberal bias while democrats hate them because of tax avoidance, worsening inequal…

> I believe if EU's laws are widely publicized and proved to be useful in EU countries, then there can be enough political pressure in the US.

Worked for universal healthcare, right?

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#125

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

Not much they can do against tech behemoths based in the US though. They can stop them from gathering EU citizen data, or at least approve laws that try to stop them but who knows what is really happening behind the scenes.

As the article says, under GDPR (coming in mid-2018) they will be able to fine 4% of global revenue, or 20m EUR, whichever is larger [1]. I'm not certain that this particular case is covered by the GDPR, but if it is, then that will compel action.

If Facebook declines to pay these fines, then presumably their execs would be arrested if they ever travelled anywhere in the EU.

While FB can claim that it “is only subject to the legislation of [the US].”, that is obviously not the case, and once the EU regulators gain their teeth, I'm sure we'll see FB change their tune.

[1]: https://www.eugdpr.org/key-changes.html

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#126

I wonder what the legal argument is behind this ruling. If one newspaper acquired another, couldn't the parent then market to the subsidiary's subscribers even if they continued to operate separately? The parent now owns everything anyway.

You never allowed the parent to send you marketing. They shouldn't be allowed to.

Tell that to my physical mailbox. Or my email inbox.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#127
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did WhatsApp charge anything? I thought for contracts you needed some kind of actual dollar amount (even $1) for it to be binding? Is that very US-law specific or am I way off here?

Didn't WhatsApp used to charge $1 per year to people in the early days?

Not sure if that was global but I did pay a Euro for it yep

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this means EU users get less creepy specific advertising. I run uBlockOrigin so I don't see many ads, but I've heard cases of Facebook/Adobe/Google algorithms being so good that people see ads for things they've never looked up online, yet talked about out loud (leading many to believe Facebook/Instagram are capturing microphone data). As a side not, this gets into the whole "Right to be Forgotten" which…

In what fashion can it be used as a form of censorship?

News organisations have to remove legitimate journalism as a result. The BBC lists it when it happens to them, eg: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/internet/entries/1d0a67ff-ad97-4c...

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe if EU's laws are widely publicized and proved to be useful in EU countries, then there can be enough political pressure in the US. A tangential, but political relevant point: tech companies are in a particularly bad spot in the US because they are hated by both sides; republicans hate them because they are perceived as having liberal bias while democrats hate them because of tax avoidance, worsening inequal…

> I believe if EU's laws are widely publicized and proved to be useful in EU countries, then there can be enough political pressure in the US. Worked for universal healthcare, right?

[deleted]

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#130
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could but you'd have to tell the users in the terms of service. If you tell them that you won't query the database and then go on and decide to do so anyways you'd get sued. With WhatsApp having a quasi monopoly on messaging it's difficult for the to change the terms of service without giving their opponents the argument that the change was forced.

Sure, that makes sense to me. But this seems more like "the company said it wouldn't allow anyone else to query the database" before I bought it. Now that I'm owner, do I still count as "anyone else?" I'd argue not. Edit: that's from a US perspective. Sounds like France (& the EU) put additional restrictions on how personal data may be used even after it's voluntarily provided.

> how personal data may be used even after it's voluntarily provided

It was voluntarily provided under the requirement that said data will not be shared with third parties for commercial purposes. Once that restriction does not apply anymore, as the data ends up being shared with third parties for commercial purposes, neither does your right to use that "voluntarily provided data".

Imho private information should be handled like a license; Sure I can allow you to use it, but if you break against the rules we agreed on I reserve the right to revoke your license to use my personal information because at the end of the day it's still MY information.

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