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China Blocks Foreign Companies from Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars

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Re: China Blocks Foreign Companies from Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars

#81

Post by chillee »

bseow wrote: post #39
foodislove wrote: post #28

Protectionism with Chinese Characteristics It's a pretty common tactic. Cite "national security" or any other vaguely plausible reason to deny access to non-favored firms (foreign companies, and local companies who don't have the "connections"). If anyone complains, government spokesperson and 50 cent mafia generate lots of angry nationalistic crying. If another country retaliates, same spokesperson and 50 cent mafia…

One can question their methods. Still why should they let foreign companies map their country? Technology and information assets like everything else. They might be the natural resources of the 21st century. And a lot of countries might be giving up their chance of becoming the next Norway without even knowing it.

I kind of agree. Whether or not you disagree with their strategy of blocking foreign tech companies, it's lead to an explosion of major chinese tech companies.

Europe doesn't have a Google, Facebook, or Amazon, because the major US companies got there early enough to dominate the entire market. I wouldn't necessarily say that that's a good result for those countries.

Re: China Blocks Foreign Companies from Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars

#82

Post by drwu »

To be fair, mapping and geo measuring were forbidden in China even before self driving becoming a popular topic.

Not only the foreign companies, even a lot of chinese companies are still not allowed to do such measurements.

It was rather a military decision than an economic one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restrictions_on_geographic_d...

Re: China Blocks Foreign Companies from Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars

#83

Post by 3pt14159 »

bseow wrote: post #39
foodislove wrote: post #28

Protectionism with Chinese Characteristics It's a pretty common tactic. Cite "national security" or any other vaguely plausible reason to deny access to non-favored firms (foreign companies, and local companies who don't have the "connections"). If anyone complains, government spokesperson and 50 cent mafia generate lots of angry nationalistic crying. If another country retaliates, same spokesperson and 50 cent mafia…

One can question their methods. Still why should they let foreign companies map their country? Technology and information assets like everything else. They might be the natural resources of the 21st century. And a lot of countries might be giving up their chance of becoming the next Norway without even knowing it.

Look, I'm not saying you are a paid shill, but 2 cents worth of thinking would lead you to the truth:

Any self-driving car can map out your roads. Saying "no road mapping for your [future] self driving cars" is silly. It could be boiled down to "no camera borne cars" which necessitates no self-driving cars.

And if they don't want our self-driving cars I don't want theirs.

Re: China Blocks Foreign Companies from Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars

#84

Post by 3pt14159 »

nemesisj wrote: post #58
cohnnton wrote: post #22

This is a typical China behavior: lie to WTO about how open its economy is, then openly disregard the repriprocity with other countries and block foreign companies from competing. Thank goodness other countries are waking up: "The United States, European Union and Japan vowed on Tuesday to work together to fight market-distorting trade practices and policies that have fueled excess production capacity, naming several…

This type of negative opinion on China is shared all too often on HN, and it's really irritating. It's also untrue. For example, lets go to the WTO itself and see the list of current disputes, which is helpfully grouped by country: https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_by_countr... - China is currently responding to 39 complaints. - The USA is responding to 132. Which is more than the entire EU (84) and…

Citing WTO numbers is essentially lying.

A successful WTO claim against America is tantamount to fiscal settlement. The same is far from true for China. They routinely rip off foreign companies. Google "Nortel China hack" and come back to me about something equivalent that the Americans have done. The Americans aren't angels, but they aren't demons either and China does not respect international norms or laws.

Re: China Blocks Foreign Companies from Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars

#85

Post by mistermann »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #38
mistermann wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people made a ton of money transferring Western manufacturing and technology to China. Most educated Western adults were raised in an environment of well-intended anti-racism propaganda, so are unable to think clearly about any topic that involves race in any way.

First sentence basically correct. Second sentence total idiotic racist non-sequitur which does not follow from the first.

The second statement is not dependent on the first, although it is related.

There is also quite literally nothing racist about it, but you've proven my point quite well (in that you see racism where it doesn't exist, a specific example of the more general point I was making).

Re: China Blocks Foreign Companies from Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars

#86

Post by bseow »

3pt14159 wrote: post #83
bseow wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can question their methods. Still why should they let foreign companies map their country? Technology and information assets like everything else. They might be the natural resources of the 21st century. And a lot of countries might be giving up their chance of becoming the next Norway without even knowing it.

Look, I'm not saying you are a paid shill, but 2 cents worth of thinking would lead you to the truth: Any self-driving car can map out your roads. Saying "no road mapping for your [future] self driving cars" is silly. It could be boiled down to "no camera borne cars" which necessitates no self-driving cars. And if they don't want our self-driving cars I don't want theirs.

I don't see how it silly. Autonomous cars are going to be a game of information. I don't think it is in any nations interest to give that information away. If autonomous cars, artificial intelligence or any other technology is going to be as big as people say (or even just as big as computers, software and information is these days) then it's going to be a large part of the future wealth of a nation. Just like oil or even regular car manufacturing is today.

Also I think you severely overestimate the subtlety of Chinese propaganda.

Re: China Blocks Foreign Companies from Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars

#87

Post by tluyben2 »

3pt14159 wrote: post #83
bseow wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can question their methods. Still why should they let foreign companies map their country? Technology and information assets like everything else. They might be the natural resources of the 21st century. And a lot of countries might be giving up their chance of becoming the next Norway without even knowing it.

Look, I'm not saying you are a paid shill, but 2 cents worth of thinking would lead you to the truth: Any self-driving car can map out your roads. Saying "no road mapping for your [future] self driving cars" is silly. It could be boiled down to "no camera borne cars" which necessitates no self-driving cars. And if they don't want our self-driving cars I don't want theirs.

> And if they don't want our self-driving cars I don't want theirs.

Not about this particular example but we know that’s not how it works; people buy whatever is cheap so not wanting something on invidual level works if you are strong and willing to spend 2-3-4-n x the money, but in general people will just buy. In the 80s many people said it about Japanese cars and yet everyone bought them eventually because cheap and good. Even in China, where many people have the old hate against Japan (far stronger than your feelings most likely as the Japenese did horrible things here), they still drive Toyota etc and they see the issue with that but it’s cheaper than German and better than Chinese, so what can you do.

Re: China Blocks Foreign Companies from Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars

#88

Post by dsl »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #74
dsl wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first film based government satellite imagery was 0.3 m/pixel, in the 1960s. It has only gotten better since then. (For comparison you can buy GeoEye 1 data today commercially at 0.41 m/pixel) We also regularly fly stealth collection aircraft over Chinese airspace. At this point all the strategic things an invading army worries about (bridge heights, strength of roads, width between buildings for turning tanks, e…

I think you might be mis-remembering the history of satellite surveillance. In the 60's you would be lucky if you got 3 meters per pixel (see https://lta.cr.usgs.gov/declass_1 for additional details) That said, there have been claims of 0.1 m GSD satellites[1]. That said, satellites cannot read street signs or business names or capture WiFi hotspots or measure mean traffic density. Things that 'streetview' cars do al…

You are correct, CORONA only did 6 m. The replacement GAMBIT achieved 0.6 m by 1966, so not far off.

Obviously street level data is always better, but from a governmental standpoint I don't believe China has effectively denied us anything we care about. Wifi capture happens over other countries at 25,000 feet from MQ-9's, so we could probably do it in China if we cared enough.

Re: China Blocks Foreign Companies from Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars

#89

Post by mistermann »

mistermann wrote: post #85
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First sentence basically correct. Second sentence total idiotic racist non-sequitur which does not follow from the first.

The second statement is not dependent on the first, although it is related. There is also quite literally nothing racist about it, but you've proven my point quite well (in that you see racism where it doesn't exist, a specific example of the more general point I was making).

3 downvotes based on feelings.

Re: China Blocks Foreign Companies from Mapping Its Roads for Self-Driving Cars

#90

Post by mistermann »

mistermann wrote: post #89
mistermann wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second statement is not dependent on the first, although it is related. There is also quite literally nothing racist about it, but you've proven my point quite well (in that you see racism where it doesn't exist, a specific example of the more general point I was making).

3 downvotes based on feelings.

And one more by my mysterious anonymous follower. Hi friend, hope all is well with you today!
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