Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

buzzfeed.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 114 posts

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#91

Post by rusk »

arcbyte wrote: post #42
VonGuard wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gates is doing this because in a few short years he went from America's darling super rich success story, to the monopolistic Satan most of us tech people remember. He was not prepared for being vilified so quickly and completely during the anti-trust years. Same thing as Andrew Carnegie: After the violent putting down of steel worker strikes, Carnegie was seen as the devil himself. He was so upset that this would be…

The Carnegie library I grew up near is the reason I am where I am today in life. If I hadn't had access to all the books I spent my childhood and teenage years reading from that library, I'd be a lesser person.

There’s a few Carnegie libraries around Ireland too [0] and as a child I fully benefitted from my local one. In fact I obtained my first Linux distro from there all the way back in 1997 when I was supposed to be studying for my high school finals .. it was a pivotal moment in my career

[0] http://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-hist...

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#92

Post by dgabriel »

civilian wrote: post #71
VonGuard wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll also get highly optimized algorithms that sell us things we don't need through the use of psychology and the exploitation of human nature. We'll also get rampant misspending of scientific research funds, which will go to boner pills and hair replacement techniques, rather than curing malaria or exploring space. We'll also have the end-game for all capitalist nations be leadership that is completely bought and p…

And what would your solution be? Because I imagine it would be government control on what we're allowed to spend money on. You are a totalitarian, and while it might be a "good" thing in some situations, that kind of power is quickly and easily corrupted. How long do you think you can last before regulatory capture happens? How long can you last before you're persecuting people for thoughtcrimes? I'll take the "peopl…

The government controls a LOT of what we can buy already. Sex work is highly regulated, and you can't buy people. You also can't buy endangered animals, ivory, or nuclear weapons.

In terms of people spending money on what they want, people spend lots of money on opioids and it ruins their lives, or kills them. Should doctors and pharmaceutical companies not be bound by any regulatory body? Should people just be allowed to OD on fentanil because they want to spend their money on it?

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#93

Post by panic »

civilian wrote: post #82
tstactplsignore wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your worldview is common, but doesn't really understand where left-wing, pro-democratic socialists are coming from. Like you, we are driven by a deep mistrust of power. We hate absolute authority, like decentralization, and are especially interested in out of the box thinking. Right now, the box we find ourselves in is a capitalist society where capitalist ideology is completely pervasive. The most powerful and dange…

Socialist governments killed tens of millions of people in the 20th century. They acquired power far more completely than any company has. Big companies come and go. They may have power, but it's temporary, and there's nothing violent when they start losing their footing. I'd rather have Amazon delivery my groceries than live in Venezuela.

That's why most modern socialists don't want an authoritarian government with a planned economy.

As the parent comment says,

> The best hopes for decentralization lie in genuinely decentralized solutions that give power back to workers, like worker cooperatives, democratic labor unions, and political protest.

These are bottom-up solutions that can work just as easily in a democratic state.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#94

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

civilian wrote: post #13

Runaway capitalism, oh shit. So that does that mean: - Global poverty will continue to decrease - We'll get a variety of options to choose from whenever we want to buy something - We'll get to choose how to spend our own money - We'll get quick and diligent service - If we don't like something, we can choose to stop buying it or working for them? The horror!!!!!

  - Global poverty will continue to decrease
  - We'll get a variety of options to choose from whenever we want to buy something
Well, except global poverty is most probably decreasing despite capitalism, not because of it.

May I also point out that beating poverty and making more consumerist products available, are not two goals with equal value? Same goes for the rest of the list in your comment.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#96

Post by logfromblammo »

hal9000xp wrote: post #29

Capitalism is danger for civilization? Writes who? A buzzfeed. A very, very leftist media site. How we end up in situation when huge portion (if not majority) of hacker community turned out to be die hard socialists ? (nowadays they call themselves social-democrats) I remember when I lived in Uzbekistan and I didn't have access to internet, I got floppy disk with saved copies of Eric Raymond articles. Once I've read…

> How we end up in situation when huge portion of hacker community turned out to be die hard socialists?

It must be all those years of reducing marginal costs of production to tiny fractions of their previous values and then seeing absolutely no benefit from it going to our friends and family.

Not that I'm a socialist. I used to be right-libertarian. Now I'm more of an anarchist, but pragmatic about it. I simply don't believe that the problems caused by concentrated power can be adequately solved by believing in concentrated power. I also don't believe that anything I say or do can have any noticeable impact on global politics. That frees me to do the best I can do in my local arena, without the rest of the world somehow being my problem to solve.

As I see it, the onus is on the wealthy to distribute the fruits of the economy that they have taken, far in excess of what they can use themselves. If they don't, the rest of us will eventually murder them. Maybe not you or me, but someone. We can suggest fixes like UBI, debate their merits, and provide detailed, foolproof plans that might avert that bloody and grisly demise, but the cycle repeats until someone that has the power elects to diffuse it permanently. Otherwise, the challenger just claims the one ring and becomes the new tyrant. From my perspective, either some key elements of socialism happen, or I may have to join a torches-and-pitchforks mob, storm the castle, and maybe kill someone. Maybe the survivors get what they want immediately, or maybe they have to wait for the pigs to start walking around on two legs, and then try again.

I don't really want to kill rich people, but I'm sure there are a few of them out there that could be vastly improved by a good murderin', and I could probably live with the guilt of it, so long as they're enough of an asshat. I can rationalize a whole lot against someone who thinks people earning $7.50/hr shouldn't have access to affordable health care. Or even houses or food.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#97

Post by ASalazarMX »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #2

Nicely done Buzzfeed. Billionaires like Bill Gates and Elon Musk assume that a superintelligent AI will stop at nothing to achieves its goals because that’s the attitude they adopted. Kind of reminds one of Ex Machina . If amoral profit maximizers design AI, it's very possibly gonna be an amoral profit maximizer. It still irrationally bothers me after 30 years of shitty MS products and Gates literally preventing tech…

Imagine a Ferengi/HAL9000 hybrid: "I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in this quarter's projections."

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#98

Post by dcre »

hal9000xp wrote: post #29

Capitalism is danger for civilization? Writes who? A buzzfeed. A very, very leftist media site. How we end up in situation when huge portion (if not majority) of hacker community turned out to be die hard socialists ? (nowadays they call themselves social-democrats) I remember when I lived in Uzbekistan and I didn't have access to internet, I got floppy disk with saved copies of Eric Raymond articles. Once I've read…

>people in the world who wants more government, more authority, more religion

Strange characterization of an author pointing out a form of authoritarianism.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#99

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

hal9000xp wrote: post #29

Capitalism is danger for civilization? Writes who? A buzzfeed. A very, very leftist media site. How we end up in situation when huge portion (if not majority) of hacker community turned out to be die hard socialists ? (nowadays they call themselves social-democrats) I remember when I lived in Uzbekistan and I didn't have access to internet, I got floppy disk with saved copies of Eric Raymond articles. Once I've read…

>> Capitalism is danger for civilization? Writes who? A buzzfeed. A very, very leftist media site.

Well? So what? And you very obviously speak from a libertarian point of view- but that doesn't mean that your comment must automatically be dismissed as worthless by those who have different political affiliations.

What's important is what someone is saying, not who is saying it, or how similar it is to something someone else has said. I'm pretty sure we should not have to point this out, anymore.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#100

Post by pdonis »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #81
pdonis wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*> the damage that too much free market causes This is an unfortunate misunderstanding of the term "capitalism". While many people who call themselves capitalists would like everyone else to think it means a free market, the capitalists themselves don't mean that. They mean simply that they acquire control of more capital, by hook or by crook. If they can most easily acquire control of more capital in a free market,…

Looking at how the free market works, in many cases I would seriously reconsider what we mean by "voluntary" here. Just because a transaction wasn't made at gunpoint, doesn't mean it wasn't coerced, or that one party wasn't duped into it through scam/advertising.

> Just because a transaction wasn't made at gunpoint, doesn't mean it wasn't coerced, or that one party wasn't duped into it through scam/advertising.

Of course coercion doesn't have to be at gunpoint. That doesn't mean "coercion" is not a reasonably well-defined term. Similarly, giving someone false information to induce them to buy something you're selling isn't a free market, it's fraud.

That said, I agree that the definition of "voluntary" has to be made with care. I said basically the same thing in the second paragraph of the post you responded to.

Post reply on HN