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The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

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21–30 of 114 posts

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#21
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But he's not donating to the church for "penance". He's helping save lives from malaria, and working on other projects to help the developing world! You can't dismiss that, and he's giving away so much of his money that it can't be considered a "fee". He's gonna 90% of it away by the time he's done.

Of course and you can't knock him for doing that. It's good, good for him. We could at least acknowledge that others didn't accumulate that wealth because their standards for business were higher than his.

Gates is doing this because in a few short years he went from America's darling super rich success story, to the monopolistic Satan most of us tech people remember. He was not prepared for being vilified so quickly and completely during the anti-trust years.

Same thing as Andrew Carnegie: After the violent putting down of steel worker strikes, Carnegie was seen as the devil himself. He was so upset that this would be his legacy, Carnegie went about doing charitable work to change his image. You probably have a library he built within 50 miles of you, no matter where you live in the US.

Gates is doing the same thing. He does not want his legacy to be that of a businessman, but rather, that of a philanthropist.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#22

Not surprising from a publication who has editors that openly support "full communism"[0]. Buzzfeed "news" is the last place I look for an objective article. [0] - http://www.sfgate.com/entertainment/the-wrap/article/BuzzFee...

It's not an article. It's an essay by a science fiction writer.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#23

Just thought I'd drop by with this helpful link about Venezuela: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/world/america... There's a first time for everything. New kinds of disasters happen. However, we can identify a number of past and present civilizational collapses, going back to the 18th century, that appear to correlate strongly with what we might call "runaway socialism." It seems difficult to identify a…

Unethical crony capitalism can destroy capitalism through the accumulation of wealth and centralization of power. What's the difference between 5 robber barons running the show and 5 members of the party vanguard? I'd suggest if you are a serious fan of capitalism, you take the arguments seriously.

Historically speaking, the US has survived robber barons, but Venezuela qua Venezuela has not survived its party vanguard.

Likewise, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously advocating for socialism who is unwilling to grapple with the fact that, yes, Venezuela is a valid data point, as are the hundreds millions of deaths socialism is directly responsible for, and spending at least a few moments contemplating whether or not they'd be one of them if they did manage to get socialism going in their local polity. If you care enough about people to want to gift them with socialism, you ought to care enough about people to spend some time considering the possible dangers it carries with it.

The party faithful do well in socialism. The almost-just-barely-not-quite-faithful, the ever-so-slightly-not-quite-in-step, the ones who agree with their leadership in principle but differ ever so slightly on matters of how to implement or who should implement... their death rate is pretty rough. Guaranteeing you're in the first group is harder than it may first appear.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#24
I've seen similar arguments before (for example here -> https://thoughtinfection.com/2014/04/19/capitalism-is-a-pape... ) and I think it's a good analogy.

What I don't understand is how this gets presented as an argument against AI risk. If the "paperclip maximizers" we construct now out of humans, machines, institutional processes and legal codes already exist, are successful, exhibit runaway growth, are a danger and lack insight in Chiang's sense, isn't that actually evidence in favor of the viability of such entities? If they are already dangerous even with humans in the loop and relying on cumbersome institutional processes, isn't that all the more reason to think about how much more dangerous they can get as they become more autonomous and agile?

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#25
post #8
post #5

Why not both?

Why not neither? The greatest danger to Civilization, in my not-so-humble opinion is tribalism. My country is better. My religion. My political philosophy. My color. My sex. My gender. And I'll riot and kill if you don't agree. Capitalism? Socialism? AI? Those won't overcome the stupidity of large populations of humans.

If an AI subscribes to the tribalism of its creators, then it could be the AI vs. everyone. That sounds (potentially) dangerous to me.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#26

Runaway capitalism, oh shit. So that does that mean: - Global poverty will continue to decrease - We'll get a variety of options to choose from whenever we want to buy something - We'll get to choose how to spend our own money - We'll get quick and diligent service - If we don't like something, we can choose to stop buying it or working for them? The horror!!!!!

Yes, consumption is paradise! :D

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#27

Nicely done Buzzfeed. Billionaires like Bill Gates and Elon Musk assume that a superintelligent AI will stop at nothing to achieves its goals because that’s the attitude they adopted. Kind of reminds one of Ex Machina . If amoral profit maximizers design AI, it's very possibly gonna be an amoral profit maximizer. It still irrationally bothers me after 30 years of shitty MS products and Gates literally preventing tech…

I think if you were on the receiving end of one of the Gates Foundation projects you would feel very different.

"Preventing technological progress" -- so because of M$ shenanigangs perhaps rich kids got their toys a year or two later? (Big perhaps.) Still think the world as a whole was better off with Bill Gates in it.

You have to be rich to give the same moral weight to providing tech toys and providing medicines.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#28
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not neither? The greatest danger to Civilization, in my not-so-humble opinion is tribalism. My country is better. My religion. My political philosophy. My color. My sex. My gender. And I'll riot and kill if you don't agree. Capitalism? Socialism? AI? Those won't overcome the stupidity of large populations of humans.

Tribalism has been around for the entire course of civilization, and has decreased over time since we got the idea that it's a bad thing. So if civilization seems like it's in trouble now then it seems unlikely that tribalism is the cause.

Tribalism is not a bad thing, neither is nationalism, it is only a problem when it turns sour. Just like everything else. It's horribly limiting to think in only black and white.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#29
Capitalism is danger for civilization? Writes who? A buzzfeed. A very, very leftist media site.

How we end up in situation when huge portion (if not majority) of hacker community turned out to be die hard socialists? (nowadays they call themselves social-democrats)

I remember when I lived in Uzbekistan and I didn't have access to internet, I got floppy disk with saved copies of Eric Raymond articles. Once I've read "How To Become A Hacker", it influenced me a lot. I would say it was the most influential article I've ever read in my life.

I imagined "a hacker", an individualist person, who likes to find non-standard solutions to problems, who thinks out of box, who don't blindly follow authority, who likes decentralisation as opposed to centralisation. "A hacker" is a person who almost by definition right-libertarian.

Latter I found this article of Eric Raymond:

http://www.catb.org/esr/writings/libgates.html

Years later, I found articles of Paul Graham. It was amazing to read him. And he also turned out to be on free-market side:

http://paulgraham.com/wealth.html

I like his quote:

> This is why so many of the best programmers are libertarians.

Now, what I've see is disappointing, I don't like this and it shouldn't be like this at least on Hacker News. We have more than enough people in the world who wants more government, more authority, more religion.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#30

Runaway capitalism, oh shit. So that does that mean: - Global poverty will continue to decrease - We'll get a variety of options to choose from whenever we want to buy something - We'll get to choose how to spend our own money - We'll get quick and diligent service - If we don't like something, we can choose to stop buying it or working for them? The horror!!!!!

An exquisitely fine balance of gnawing dissatisfaction held at bay by suffering
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