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The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

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Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#41

Post by jhpankow »

ForRealsies wrote: post #33
VonGuard wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gates is doing this because in a few short years he went from America's darling super rich success story, to the monopolistic Satan most of us tech people remember. He was not prepared for being vilified so quickly and completely during the anti-trust years. Same thing as Andrew Carnegie: After the violent putting down of steel worker strikes, Carnegie was seen as the devil himself. He was so upset that this would be…

What about all the other enormously rich families that don't have the spotlight shined on them to hold them to a higher standard?

They won't need to give 90% of their wealth away to make sure they don't get villainized.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#42

Post by arcbyte »

VonGuard wrote: post #21
aaron-lebo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course and you can't knock him for doing that. It's good, good for him. We could at least acknowledge that others didn't accumulate that wealth because their standards for business were higher than his.

Gates is doing this because in a few short years he went from America's darling super rich success story, to the monopolistic Satan most of us tech people remember. He was not prepared for being vilified so quickly and completely during the anti-trust years. Same thing as Andrew Carnegie: After the violent putting down of steel worker strikes, Carnegie was seen as the devil himself. He was so upset that this would be…

The Carnegie library I grew up near is the reason I am where I am today in life. If I hadn't had access to all the books I spent my childhood and teenage years reading from that library, I'd be a lesser person.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#43

Post by ribosometronome »

civilian wrote: post #13

Runaway capitalism, oh shit. So that does that mean: - Global poverty will continue to decrease - We'll get a variety of options to choose from whenever we want to buy something - We'll get to choose how to spend our own money - We'll get quick and diligent service - If we don't like something, we can choose to stop buying it or working for them? The horror!!!!!

Many of the things you just listed have improved because of constraints placed on capitalism not runaway capitalism.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#44

Post by billjings »

throwaway1660 wrote: post #3

Just thought I'd drop by with this helpful link about Venezuela: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/world/america... There's a first time for everything. New kinds of disasters happen. However, we can identify a number of past and present civilizational collapses, going back to the 18th century, that appear to correlate strongly with what we might call "runaway socialism." It seems difficult to identify a…

There is a whole raft of writers who made their bones writing about runaway capitalism in capitalist Britain. The most famous story by perhaps the English language's greatest writer, Charles Dickens, is a morality tale about a hardhearted and greedy boss whose underpaid staff is practically starving to death.

The French revolutionary thought that inspired our own government was energized by the plight of the French poor in 18th century laissez faire France.

And that's all if you stop at the 18th century. Dig on further back into antiquity and there's even more going on.

I am not surprised this argument merited the use of a throwaway account.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#45

Post by chuckgreenman »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #2

Nicely done Buzzfeed. Billionaires like Bill Gates and Elon Musk assume that a superintelligent AI will stop at nothing to achieves its goals because that’s the attitude they adopted. Kind of reminds one of Ex Machina . If amoral profit maximizers design AI, it's very possibly gonna be an amoral profit maximizer. It still irrationally bothers me after 30 years of shitty MS products and Gates literally preventing tech…

I disagree with the idea that microsoft is somehow blocking progress. Personally I'm an Arch Linux guy, but that's what works best for my job.

Many people who critisize microsoft are doing it from a chair that was designed on a Windows machine, and likely assembled in a factory with machines running windows embeded. It's a good product for what it's good at.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#46

Post by mbunch »

jerf wrote: post #23
aaron-lebo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unethical crony capitalism can destroy capitalism through the accumulation of wealth and centralization of power. What's the difference between 5 robber barons running the show and 5 members of the party vanguard? I'd suggest if you are a serious fan of capitalism, you take the arguments seriously.

Historically speaking, the US has survived robber barons, but Venezuela qua Venezuela has not survived its party vanguard. Likewise, I have a hard time taking anyone seriously advocating for socialism who is unwilling to grapple with the fact that, yes, Venezuela is a valid data point, as are the hundreds millions of deaths socialism is directly responsible for, and spending at least a few moments contemplating wheth…

Did robber barons have as much political power as corporations do today? This is an honest question. I'm not an expert, but my speculation is that the level of control that lobbying gives those "winning" capitalism today over the laws that are supposed to be keeping them in check is a new thing and will take us into uncharted territory.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#47

Post by chrisco255 »

jonny_eh wrote: post #31
civilian wrote: post #13

Runaway capitalism, oh shit. So that does that mean: - Global poverty will continue to decrease - We'll get a variety of options to choose from whenever we want to buy something - We'll get to choose how to spend our own money - We'll get quick and diligent service - If we don't like something, we can choose to stop buying it or working for them? The horror!!!!!

There are an infinite number of alternatives between communism and unregulated corporate capitalism.

Please show me a country where unregulated capitalism exists.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#48

Post by ythn »

hal9000xp wrote: post #29

Capitalism is danger for civilization? Writes who? A buzzfeed. A very, very leftist media site. How we end up in situation when huge portion (if not majority) of hacker community turned out to be die hard socialists ? (nowadays they call themselves social-democrats) I remember when I lived in Uzbekistan and I didn't have access to internet, I got floppy disk with saved copies of Eric Raymond articles. Once I've read…

A lot of "hackers" also have a min/max mindset where they have to optimize everything, including society. And min/maxing society means solving problems like wealth imbalance, causes of death, etc. And from a purely analytical standpoint, it seems that increasing government authority is the only viable solution to a lot of those things.

FWIW I am a right leaning libertarian type, but I think I understand why a lot of hackers/intellectuals lean left. Feel free to correct me.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#49

Post by jchw »

hal9000xp wrote: post #29

Capitalism is danger for civilization? Writes who? A buzzfeed. A very, very leftist media site. How we end up in situation when huge portion (if not majority) of hacker community turned out to be die hard socialists ? (nowadays they call themselves social-democrats) I remember when I lived in Uzbekistan and I didn't have access to internet, I got floppy disk with saved copies of Eric Raymond articles. Once I've read…

I wouldn't consider the best "hackers" to be the best programmers. To me, a hacker is almost a specific type of programmer, and not everyone embodies the manifesto.

Re: The Real Danger to Civilization Isn't AI. It's Runaway Capitalism

#50

Post by civilian »

jonny_eh wrote: post #31
civilian wrote: post #13

Runaway capitalism, oh shit. So that does that mean: - Global poverty will continue to decrease - We'll get a variety of options to choose from whenever we want to buy something - We'll get to choose how to spend our own money - We'll get quick and diligent service - If we don't like something, we can choose to stop buying it or working for them? The horror!!!!!

There are an infinite number of alternatives between communism and unregulated corporate capitalism.

You might read this: http://www.americanteeth.org/2015/06/21/why-i-m-a-capitalist...

When I think of the word capitalist, I think: "using markets to allocate resources & products". When you use that word, you think of... well I'm not sure, but it's some kind of boogeyman that you think is self-evident.

The author of the post is himself a social-democrat or some sorts, and supports redistribution, but he still recognizes the basics of how well markets work.

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