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Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

nytimes.com

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Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#101

Post by bsder »

Glyptodon wrote: post #18

I'm reminded of a family friend telling me a story about how last year they were on day trip somewhere and a power outage happened to occur in whatever one-shop town out in the boondocks they were visiting and only one old Grandma had cash to pay for a drink or snack while the power was out, everyone else basically had to starve through lunch waiting for the power to come back on.

Hah. The last power outage in San Diego they lost vast amounts of food because none of the businesses could transact AT ALL. They no longer have backup systems that are unpowered.

So, even if you had cash, they couldn't take it.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#102

Post by tbirrell »

stinkytaco wrote: post #50
c0wb0yc0d3r wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, employees must still be paid minimum wage. Depending on the state, an employer may count tips toward this amount. If an employee reports $0 in tips, the employer must pay them $7.25/hr. While I would like to believe that what you say is true, I find it hard to be true. I think the bigger issues are at play whether it's is the fact that minimum wages need to be adjusted, a more modern solution is needed to…

1. 7.25 is not enough to live on. And the ability to pay less with the assumption that there will be tips does not make it better. Especially considering that in many states you can require tip-pooling, effectively removing the stated point of tips in the first place (to motivate better service). Nor does this really address the problem of tipping as a cultural phenomenon, it just doesn't really need to exist. 2. The…

$7.25 is not meant to be enough to live on. People were not meant to make a living flipping burgers. Its an entry level job. Minimum wage is where you start, not where you end.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#103

Post by EliRivers »

untog wrote: post #79
ahoy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is saying "pay bartenders less." We're saying "pay bartenders higher, fairer wages so that they dont have to depend on tips"

Right, but how ? Wishing it away won't do much. "Hey! We created this great, convenient new method of paying for things, you should sign up to process all your payments through it" "Wow, looks fantastic. I'm signed up. One problem, though: you can't tip people through it like you used to be able to." "Oh, goodness, yes, that's a problem alright. A real bug in the system. Someone should do something about that. Anyway…

Well clearly people are happy to pay the extra. We just need to get them used to the idea of doing it in one transaction rather than two.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#104

Post by notyourday »

Sangermaine wrote: post #4
betterunix2 wrote: post #2

Maybe we should not have tips? There is no actual need or advantage to giving people tips, and there are plenty of countries where tipping is not common (including some where cash is still favored over electronic payments). Why not just pay people a fair wage that they can live on?

Because that would cost the companies more and they're happy to get away with paying less. It's really not a mystery.

I'm sorry.. Elevator operator ?! In 2017?! WAT?

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#105

Post by EliRivers »

criddell wrote: post #100
isleyaardvark wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the theory but studies haven't found that tips improve service. (pdfs): http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic... http://scholarship.sha.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic... There are also issues where tipping can be biased due to racial or gender discrimination. Racial discrimination (I don't have a gender study handy): https://psmag.com/economics/racism-black-restaurant-waiters-...

What about the reverse? Do those that deliver better service make more money than their under-performing peers?

Only if those providing better service are more attractive, more flirty (works only for the attractive, I suspect), touch their customers more, draw smiley faces on the bill, or participate in the various other things that do actually affect the tip.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#106

Post by notyourday »

c0wb0yc0d3r wrote: post #33
Sangermaine wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that would cost the companies more and they're happy to get away with paying less. It's really not a mystery.

In the US, employees must still be paid minimum wage. Depending on the state, an employer may count tips toward this amount. If an employee reports $0 in tips, the employer must pay them $7.25/hr. While I would like to believe that what you say is true, I find it hard to be true. I think the bigger issues are at play whether it's is the fact that minimum wages need to be adjusted, a more modern solution is needed to…

There's zero reason to have elevator operator in Manhattan Co-op.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#107

Post by notyourday »

astura wrote: post #30
nkrisc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The ostensible purpose of the doorman is to add a layer of security. Someone who is always there watching, looking for people who don't belong, receiving packages and securing them, etc. They are basically a crime deterrent. Sounds like a pretty important job. I imagine a building would want to compensate such a person pretty well in order to help keep the building secure and functioning smoothly. As they say, you g…

Door keepers in NYC are actually unionized: http://www.seiu32bj.org/who-we-are/

And that's insanity.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#108

Post by tomc1985 »

betterunix2 wrote: post #53
tomc1985 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should keep cash and stop trying to kill it? So many think there is no value to a physical, untraceable, my-transaction-is-not-necessarily-logged money, so sad :/

We can make untraceable electronic payment systems; in fact, there was a failed startup doing just that all the way back in 1989: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digicash That said, what makes you think having a cash-oriented society guarantees tipping? There are industrialized nations that still rely on cash but where tipping is not ingrained in the culture; my experience in Japan was that if I left a tip people would…

Why must this be only about tipping?

Cash provides for people in a lot of ways that digital money can't or never will. Tipping, getting paid under-the-table, drug purchases... can digicash benefit all these people? Those groups should stay with cash, the amount of OpSec required for digital alternatives is too much...

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#109

Post by betterunix2 »

untog wrote: post #90
betterunix2 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A new technology can have many impacts on society. Are tech companies supposed to hold back on new ideas until every possible stakeholder has had a chance to weigh in? Is every negatively impacted stakeholder entitled to some kind of solution before new technologies are deployed? The reason the tech industry will almost certainly not wind up with the negative image that financial companies suffer with is that people…

> Are tech companies supposed to hold back on new ideas until every possible stakeholder has had a chance to weigh in? I did not propose this strawman at any point. I merely said that tech companies should be actively engaged in solving the follow on problems from their creations, not that they shouldn't be allowed to create things.

Why should tech companies be engaged in solving every follow-on problem? That is not how a market-based society like ours works, and it was a spectacular failure when we tried that approach with railroads (the history of Amtrak and Conrail is informative).

There are a few limited cases where it makes sense to force companies to deal with negative impacts of their technology -- environmental pollution comes to mind. For the most part, society simply has to adapt to change, because change is the story of human progress. Some jobs may be lost, some people may be inconvenienced, but saddling every innovator with the responsibility for those negative outcomes (yes, that is what it means to demand that they be "actively engaged" in finding the solution) will only serve to freeze our society in time.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#110

Post by Sangermaine »

c0wb0yc0d3r wrote: post #33
Sangermaine wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that would cost the companies more and they're happy to get away with paying less. It's really not a mystery.

In the US, employees must still be paid minimum wage. Depending on the state, an employer may count tips toward this amount. If an employee reports $0 in tips, the employer must pay them $7.25/hr. While I would like to believe that what you say is true, I find it hard to be true. I think the bigger issues are at play whether it's is the fact that minimum wages need to be adjusted, a more modern solution is needed to…

>In the US, employees must still be paid minimum wage. Depending on the state, an employer may count tips toward this amount. If an employee reports $0 in tips, the employer must pay them $7.25/hr. While I would like to believe that what you say is true, I find it hard to be true.

You are beyond naive if you really think that because these laws are on the books they’re not being routinely and widely flouted or ignored.

If you really find it hard to be true that employers will try to spend less on employees, you’re not capable of participating in this discussion because you lack even basic familiarity with the real world.

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