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Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

theguardian.com

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Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#121

Post by msg3 »

adventured wrote: post #103
r00fus wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm - do you have a cite on your claims about the UK? It's hardly fair to ask for citations when you give none.

edit: I'd like to see the people downvoting my facts , counter how this doesn't amount to a wave or big surge of crime, these numbers are huge increases in a short amount of time. --- Crime has seen a huge increase in Britain and it appears set to keep getting worse. Crime in London has increased dramatically. I'm not going to claim that's due to gun laws, however it is factually correct that crime is surging big tim…

Funny, I must have missed this massive wave of crime.

From the same Guardian article:

"The policing minister, Nick Hurd, said that crime, as measured by the crime survey, was down by a third since 2010 and by 69% since its 1995 peak."

From the BBC article:

Martin Hewitt, assistant commissioner responsible for territorial policing, said: "Similar to the rest of England and Wales, crime rates in London are rising, but many of these are still at a much lower level than five years ago and are against the backdrop of significant reductions in resources.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#122

Post by IntelMiner »

Tyco wrote: post #62
toomanybeersies wrote: post #50

This scenario doesn't just happen with drug policy, but with practically any divisive policy discussion. People will debate something that is done elsewhere, and ignore completely that it's done elsewhere. Gay marriage is a prime example, as it's something that has been legalised in a lot of countries now. Every time a country goes through the process of debating whether to legalise gay marriage, there's a bunch of p…

Well, the US legalizes gay marriage and now they have Trump. Rebuttal?

Correlation is not causation

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#123

Post by adventured »

r00fus wrote: post #117
adventured wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit: I'd like to see the people downvoting my facts , counter how this doesn't amount to a wave or big surge of crime, these numbers are huge increases in a short amount of time. --- Crime has seen a huge increase in Britain and it appears set to keep getting worse. Crime in London has increased dramatically. I'm not going to claim that's due to gun laws, however it is factually correct that crime is surging big tim…

You show figures for the past year, yet the most recent legislative acts were both 10 (VCRA) and 20 (Firearms act) years ago. I agree both that you're factually correct and that your data does not at all support your earlier assertion that "banning guns increased gun crime". So % are increasing, but the overall per-capita UK gun crime and death is still woefully below the good ol US of A as per: https://www.usatoday.…

> I agree both that you're factually correct and that your data does not at all support your earlier assertion that "banning guns increased gun crime".

You just made a mistake there.

I didn't assert earlier that banning guns increases gun crime. Someone else said that.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#124

Post by adventured »

msg3 wrote: post #121
adventured wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit: I'd like to see the people downvoting my facts , counter how this doesn't amount to a wave or big surge of crime, these numbers are huge increases in a short amount of time. --- Crime has seen a huge increase in Britain and it appears set to keep getting worse. Crime in London has increased dramatically. I'm not going to claim that's due to gun laws, however it is factually correct that crime is surging big tim…

Funny, I must have missed this massive wave of crime. From the same Guardian article: "The policing minister, Nick Hurd, said that crime, as measured by the crime survey, was down by a third since 2010 and by 69% since its 1995 peak." From the BBC article: Martin Hewitt, assistant commissioner responsible for territorial policing, said: "Similar to the rest of England and Wales, crime rates in London are rising, but…

You don't think a tripling of acid attacks, a 20% increase in violent offenses, a 24% increase in knife attacks, a 42% jump in gun offenses - all in such a short amount of time, amounts to a wave of crime?

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#125

Post by icebraining »

zaarn wrote: post #111
andrewstuart wrote: post #41

Portugal’s policy is deeply flawed because it does not legalize the sale of all drugs, only the consumption. When selling is legal is when organized crime leaves the picture, taxes can be collected, product is clean and measured and of quality. Both sides of the equation are important to legalize, doing one without the other means huge problems remain.

In which case the policy would be similar to germany; german law considers drug consumption a form of selfharm, which the law has no authority to forbid. Selling, owning or doing anything but consuming drugs is basically illegal though.

The important part of the law regards to carrying: in Portugal, carrying small amounts (eg. up to 1gr of heroin or 25gr of marijuana leaves¹) is considered to be for personal use and decriminalized. Is the same true in Germany?

¹As defined in the law, but prosecutors and judges can and often do avoid charging people with crimes if they have a bit more and there's no evidence of trafficking.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#126

Post by bonestamp2 »

nkurz wrote: post #66
wdewind wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot here that needs to be picked apart. Here are the major things you're missing: 1. Marijuana has been researched extensively and its health effects are at worst similar to alcohol, at best significantly less bad for you. In that context it makes sense to think of marijuana as a consumer product, and it makes sense that requiring a consumer product be sold in a dangerous and unregulated way would reduce de…

I rarely downvote clear and well-written comments just because I disagree with them, but feel I need to make an exception here. Your "1" is true, but you prefaced it by claiming that it was one of the "major things" the parent was missing. I'm pretty sure he wasn't missing this, as indicated by the sentence "This uptick has been benign because its been limited to Marijuana". Number "2" adds useful distinctions regard…

We should never downvote a comment just because we disagree with it. We should only downvote comments that don't contribute to the discussion. If someone is blatantly wrong, their information could be a common misconception that needs to be addressed and seen by everyone. Comments we disagree with are most often very good additions to the discussion and should be upvoted, even if they're factually inaccurate but there is a comment that corrects them. We have to include more ideas, not filter out the ideas we disagree with -- that creates an echo chamber which helps no one.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#127

Post by bsder »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #50

This scenario doesn't just happen with drug policy, but with practically any divisive policy discussion. People will debate something that is done elsewhere, and ignore completely that it's done elsewhere. Gay marriage is a prime example, as it's something that has been legalised in a lot of countries now. Every time a country goes through the process of debating whether to legalise gay marriage, there's a bunch of p…

Well, the "Christians" were predicting that it was a short step from gay marriage to pedophilia and bestiality.

Suddenly, the "Christians" are trying to elect a pedophile to US Senate. Coincidence? I think not.

Who has the pool on when they try to elect on Congressman with a bestiality tape?

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#128

Post by avip »

Tyco wrote: post #62
toomanybeersies wrote: post #50

This scenario doesn't just happen with drug policy, but with practically any divisive policy discussion. People will debate something that is done elsewhere, and ignore completely that it's done elsewhere. Gay marriage is a prime example, as it's something that has been legalised in a lot of countries now. Every time a country goes through the process of debating whether to legalise gay marriage, there's a bunch of p…

Well, the US legalizes gay marriage and now they have Trump. Rebuttal?

Aussies banned shotguns and were punished with a terrible drought.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#129

Post by apexalpha »

justrobert wrote: post #77
eitland wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are also only sold with a prescription. And while I know US has an opioid crisis this prescription thing seems to work here.

Except anyone can buy fent online easily. Far more dangerous for anyone who is near those that buy it.

Except people don't here.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#130

Post by msg3 »

adventured wrote: post #124
msg3 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I must have missed this massive wave of crime. From the same Guardian article: "The policing minister, Nick Hurd, said that crime, as measured by the crime survey, was down by a third since 2010 and by 69% since its 1995 peak." From the BBC article: Martin Hewitt, assistant commissioner responsible for territorial policing, said: "Similar to the rest of England and Wales, crime rates in London are rising, but…

You don't think a tripling of acid attacks, a 20% increase in violent offenses, a 24% increase in knife attacks, a 42% jump in gun offenses - all in such a short amount of time, amounts to a wave of crime?

No.
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