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Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

theguardian.com

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Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#61

Post by lerie82 »

For the people including Marijuana in these arguments alongside METH and other hardcore MAN-MADE narcotics, maybe you forget that weed can basically grow anywhere, is a plant, and is not man-made.

The article has a clear focus on heroin and meth (drug usage that can be associated with the sharing of needles) and not so much worried about Marijuana.

Also, for those who may not know, just because you legalize a drug doesn't mean druggies will be in the workforce. Just because a drug is legal doesn't mean a company has to hire someone that does the drug. For example, I had my medical marijuana card in California, however, companies still denied me jobs when the pee came back dirty.

No, we shouldn't copy Portugal's drug policies.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#62

Post by Tyco »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #50

This scenario doesn't just happen with drug policy, but with practically any divisive policy discussion. People will debate something that is done elsewhere, and ignore completely that it's done elsewhere. Gay marriage is a prime example, as it's something that has been legalised in a lot of countries now. Every time a country goes through the process of debating whether to legalise gay marriage, there's a bunch of p…

Well, the US legalizes gay marriage and now they have Trump. Rebuttal?

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#63

Post by freddie_mercury »

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #38

>Portugal’s remarkable recovery, and the fact that it has held steady through several changes in government – including conservative leaders who would have preferred to return to the US-style war on drugs – could not have happened without an enormous cultural shift, and a change in how the country viewed drugs, addiction – and itself. In many ways, the law was merely a reflection of transformations that were already…

The fact that things work differently outside of the US yet most foreign countries still haven't adopted it suggests that none of your purported reasons are the primary cause.

They almost certainly are tiny things with very small marginal contributions when countries as varied as Russia, Australia, Sweden, Poland, Singapore, and Switzerland -- who don't have of the factors you mention -- also have failed to follow Portugal's innovation.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#64

Post by rblatz »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #49
andrewstuart wrote: post #41

Portugal’s policy is deeply flawed because it does not legalize the sale of all drugs, only the consumption. When selling is legal is when organized crime leaves the picture, taxes can be collected, product is clean and measured and of quality. Both sides of the equation are important to legalize, doing one without the other means huge problems remain.

I don't think that something as harmful as heroin should be legal to sell, even in a taxed and regulated scenario. Other options that, in my amateur opinion, would be better, would be to more heavily penalise adultered drugs, or to have pharmacies supply, with a prescription, addictive drugs, but only to addicts. The latter idea is basically an extension of safe injection clinics.

There are multiple drugs of the same class as heroin that are actually stronger and more dangerous than heroin that are legal. But they aren’t sold cut to hell with fillers in order to make extra money.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#65

Post by jack9 »

natural219 wrote: post #57
palad1n wrote: post #9

https://www.vox.com/2016/3/22/11278760/war-on-drugs-racism-n...

Gotta love that URL. "War-on-drugs-racism-Nixon". For some reason I predict this link will shed more heat than light.

History often has such an effect. People forego the truth in fear of the heat and deny there is any truth at all. The Damore problem.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#66

Post by nkurz »

wdewind wrote: post #52
thrden wrote: post #23

One thing that people aren't considering is that we have legalization experiments within the United States, and we have seen an uptick in marijuana usage[1]. This uptick has been benign because its been limited to Marijuana. I think that given our culture (one that I believe is potentially universal, but I can not speak to universality) has a tendency toward over consumption, its not clear to me that legalization of…

There's a lot here that needs to be picked apart. Here are the major things you're missing: 1. Marijuana has been researched extensively and its health effects are at worst similar to alcohol, at best significantly less bad for you. In that context it makes sense to think of marijuana as a consumer product, and it makes sense that requiring a consumer product be sold in a dangerous and unregulated way would reduce de…

I rarely downvote clear and well-written comments just because I disagree with them, but feel I need to make an exception here. Your "1" is true, but you prefaced it by claiming that it was one of the "major things" the parent was missing. I'm pretty sure he wasn't missing this, as indicated by the sentence "This uptick has been benign because its been limited to Marijuana".

Number "2" adds useful distinctions regarding the Portugese approach, but I don't think there is any basis for your statement that "People who do not have some kind of mental illness do not use hard drugs frequently". This is tautologically true if you define addiction as mental illness, but would you really claim that no one regularly uses heroin because they became addicted to after starting with prescription painkillers, rather that they use it regularly only because they have an underlying non-drug related mental illness?

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#67

Post by gt_ »

loeg wrote: post #54
fabrice_d wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefit of legalizing marijuana is not to decrease usage but to cut financing to dealers. It is also safer for users, and reduces the risk to exposure to more dangerous drugs.

Dealers are fine (after all, consumers aren't expected to grow it all themselves); the problem is the flow of money back to the cartels.

Maybe this is nitpicking, but I’d rather see more opportunity for small businesses operating in the honest open than for black market operations. As with a lot of the convo here, the idea is a hollistically better society. Black markets create a lot of tangential issues.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#68

Post by alphaalpha101 »

andrewstuart wrote: post #41

Portugal’s policy is deeply flawed because it does not legalize the sale of all drugs, only the consumption. When selling is legal is when organized crime leaves the picture, taxes can be collected, product is clean and measured and of quality. Both sides of the equation are important to legalize, doing one without the other means huge problems remain.

Selling shouldn't be legal. They're controlled substances. Now I think marijuana should indeed by legalised, but heroin certainly shouldn't be.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#69

Post by derefr »

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #38

>Portugal’s remarkable recovery, and the fact that it has held steady through several changes in government – including conservative leaders who would have preferred to return to the US-style war on drugs – could not have happened without an enormous cultural shift, and a change in how the country viewed drugs, addiction – and itself. In many ways, the law was merely a reflection of transformations that were already…

That wasn't the question, though. Why has no other country copied it—for example, a social-welfare state like Sweden, or a technocracy like Singapore?

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#70

Post by gardenhose23 »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #63
bob_theslob646 wrote: post #38

>Portugal’s remarkable recovery, and the fact that it has held steady through several changes in government – including conservative leaders who would have preferred to return to the US-style war on drugs – could not have happened without an enormous cultural shift, and a change in how the country viewed drugs, addiction – and itself. In many ways, the law was merely a reflection of transformations that were already…

The fact that things work differently outside of the US yet most foreign countries still haven't adopted it suggests that none of your purported reasons are the primary cause. They almost certainly are tiny things with very small marginal contributions when countries as varied as Russia, Australia, Sweden, Poland, Singapore, and Switzerland -- who don't have of the factors you mention -- also have failed to follow Po…

Many of those countries don't treat drugs anywhere near like the way the US does.

Switzerland in fact has a system very similar to what is described in this article. Methadone (and even in some cases heroin) is readily dispensed to those in need. You aren't going to end up with a 10 year sentence for possessing hard drugs, you'll be helped.

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