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Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

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201–210 of 447 posts

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#201

I wonder how educators are handling this. When I was set to graduate high school a decade ago we spent a portion of our home room hour planning our collegiate futures. I think I may have been the exception -- where my advisor stressed that we had to do something. Too often I hear that, "college is the only option." I personally never experienced that, but I wonder if educators are stressing that 4 year universities a…

My son just started Mountain View High School here in Silicon Valley, not too far away from the Googleplex. I'll simply say that in all of the relevant words I've read from that school, nowhere was there any allowance for NOT going for some kind of college. It was kind of spooky.

To a significant degree, you're mainly buying precisely that culture of "you're (we're, i.e. the students themselves reinforce the culture, which is vital) gonna prep for the SAT, do well in school, and so on, because you (we) are going to college, period, and... oh, you're not applying there, are you? No no no, my grandpa's name is on a building at [more presigious school], apply there, I'll talk to a couple people. Oh, and come volunteer at [charity] with me a couple weekends, looks great, my mom's on the board and can get you something that looks more important on an application than what most people do there. Do you have an internship for the Summer? We'll talk to my dad next time you're over playing xbox, probably can hook you up" when you pay (through housing costs) for top-end public schools, or mid-tier-and-higher private schools.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#202
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A similar number of people" developing a brand of hero worship for scientists? Maybe I'm hugely biased but that doesn't really mirror what I see online and elsewhere. Are you telling me that for every climate change denier, for every anti-vaxxer, for every creationist, for every chemtrail/tap water/moon landing/flat earth conspiracy theorist there's a rabid scientist who elevates the current scientific consensus to…

The "March for Science" that happened earlier this year had estimated attendance of 1.07 million. Now go to Google Images and search for "March for Science". Nearly every sign I see is either political in nature, elevating science to a level of religion/infallibility, or casting science as a fashion/meme ("Scientific is the new chic", "Science isn't wrong", "In science we trust").

Not sure if memes are diagnostic here. Even a sane moment these days has to resort to low quality clickbaity stuff if they want to get social media (or real life) traction.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#203
post #22

There is definitely an education bubble. It's way too easy to get money for college. You hear a lot of stories about the increasing costs of college and crushing debt on graduation, but you don't hear a lot of stories of "I wanted to go to college but couldn't get a loan". Almost everyone gets approved, regardless of their future ability to pay it back. We need a fundamental shift in the way college is paid for. Some…

> Another solution is to let you go to school for free and then pay a percent of all your future earnings In Australia we have a system somewhere between this and a loan. You go to (heavily subsidized) university, tuition is paid for by the government with an automatic interest free loan. Once you earn above a particular (somewhat generous) threshold, your employer automatically starts taking a percentage of your inc…

question: why would you pay it off early? money (generally) gets cheaper over time and if interest is lower then inflation there is no reason to pay it off early as the debt becomes cheaper every year.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#204
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't tell if you're enlightened or institutionalized. > Scholarly work really helps shape the way you look at life for the better. Like what? What scenario did you encounter and how did your studies help you? Otherwise it sounds like a vague claim that every religious institution would make.

> Like what? What scenario did you encounter and how did your studies help you? Otherwise it sounds like a vague claim that every religious institution would make. Studying for a degree involves more than just reading a book. A good degree (no matter what major you choose) should leave you with the skills and capabilities to learn and teach yourself new skills. This - not the knowledge gained - is by far the most val…

Degrees are cost prohibitive and there's no incentive to increase supply. Higher costs signal exclusivity and prestige - which I would argue is the true value of a degree. It's an item of luxury that is intended to open doors for you.

If we could objectively measure the tangible benefits of a degree and replicate it with a low cost alternative - it still wouldn't carry the same prestige because it's not exclusionary. I think the greatest barrier to truly accessible education is our status seeking behavior.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another solution is to let you go to school for free and then pay a percent of all your future earnings back to your college, or at least into a pool that pays for the next generation's college. We could call it income tax :)

The problem with subsidizing college in any way, including the current student loan system is that it encourages people to go to college whether it makes sense or not, and as several people have mentioned in this discussion, in a lot of cases, it doesn't make sense. Anyone who is properly motivated should be able to go to college, but when I hear cries for a free college education, I can imagine that that would stimu…

I think this is just yet another symptom of outdated mindsets. I think people should have the ability to study advanced topics beyond the direct market benefits. Though maybe they also have to learn some core, marketable skills. It’s important for people to see there’s more to life than a paycheck and a cubicle. If society only ever studies the immediately financial, then we risk missing opportunities for short term gains.

One such would be computer science. Until computers came around the underlying algorithm and associated fields were pure math. If people hadn’t been able to study pure math then there wouldn’t have been an entire wing of mathematics available for CS.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who came from my alma mater who majored in drama can't say the same. Don't worry, your salary gives them a way out too. And I'm not just saying that to be snarky, I think it's very likely what will end up happening: you'll end up paying for their poor choices one way or another. If it's not directly via taxes to pay off their student loans, it'll fund their retirement.

> Don't worry, your salary gives them a way out too. And I'm not just saying that to be snarky, I think it's very likely what will end up happening: you'll end up paying for their poor choices one way or another. If it's not directly via taxes to pay off their student loans, it'll fund their retirement. Social Security benefits, without any other retirement savings, puts you right around poverty level. I would not co…

> Congrats! The world still needs plenty of professions where the pay sucks and college is required (teachers, civil engineers, LPNs), that are arguably far more useful/noble/whatever you want to call real value.

Shame on you for working in tech and not a more noble profession. I recommend that you resign from your job next week and become a high school math teacher.

(I got a job in tech because I feel it adds the most value to the world so I'm not a hypocrite)

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#207
post #22

There is definitely an education bubble. It's way too easy to get money for college. You hear a lot of stories about the increasing costs of college and crushing debt on graduation, but you don't hear a lot of stories of "I wanted to go to college but couldn't get a loan". Almost everyone gets approved, regardless of their future ability to pay it back. We need a fundamental shift in the way college is paid for. Some…

> Another solution is to let you go to school for free and then pay a percent of all your future earnings back to your college, or at least into a pool that pays for the next generation's college. We could call it income tax :)

Actually Singapore has a similar program. The Singaporean government pays tuition for some students for them to finish their higher education abroad. After graduation, they come back and work for the government full-time for a couple of years in exchange.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#208
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being sardonic, but socialism-by-bailout seems like an interesting experiment. Next, we automatically bail out everyone with medical debt -> universal healthcare!

I detected slight sarcasm, but you may be more right than you know. We'll see in 3 years, or less (please)

No sarcasm. I suspect this kind of bureaucratic sideloading might be the only way to get these changes done. One further: if the Fed starts an index fund and distributes the dividends equally to the American people, do we suddenly have UBI tied to the national GDP? If that index fund gets large enough that it owns a significant portion of the economy, do we have distributed control of the means of production?

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#209
post #64

Easy solution. LET the students default. Seriously, if students could default like they can buying a used car there would be lower tuition and better attention to whom you give a loan to.

No offense, but that's ridiculous. There's money owed here. The schools already got it, the banks are owed it. Someone needs to make that right, you can't just "forgive" debt without some party taking a huge hit. Which one? I'm guessing the developed version of your proposal would be for the government to step in and make the payments to the banks. But.. that's ridiculous. If you want to throw around government money…

Having the government step in and pick up the tab isn't as ridiculous as you think. The majority cost increase (65%)[1] of higher education in the US over the last couple decades is due to a systematic defunding of government support for schools. It would be nice if we started investing in our country's education again.

[1]2015 Study by the New York Federal Reserve - https://www.newyorkfed.org/medialibrary/media/research/staff...

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The world still needs plenty of professions where the pay sucks and college is required Quite a self-contradictory statement. I mean, if the world was in such a dire need of said professions in such quantities, then their pay wouldn’t suck in the first place.

As if the world was a free market, and compensation was tied to value.

Everything you look at was built by engineers, don't be so quickly to dismiss your own people
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