Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market • Hacker News Board

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#191

Post by FLUX-YOU » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 6:22 PM UTC

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #155

jackweirdy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another solution is to let you go to school for free and then pay a percent of all your future earnings back to your college, or at least into a pool that pays for the next generation's college. We could call it income tax :)

The problem with subsidizing college in any way, including the current student loan system is that it encourages people to go to college whether it makes sense or not, and as several people have mentioned in this discussion, in a lot of cases, it doesn't make sense. Anyone who is properly motivated should be able to go to college, but when I hear cries for a free college education, I can imagine that that would stimu…

Subsidizing non-college career options would fix that, but really it would probably just be easier to expand college options to include non-degree career paths so that those options fall under the college umbrella.

Really though, people might choose to go to college to see what they are capable of and take on a challenge with the possibility of failure already planned. They might already know they can do an alternate career path as well.

The idea that everyone will have their life planned out before college is silly. I certainly have no idea how well I would do in every college degree program. I could be great, or I could suck.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#192

Post by AceJohnny2 » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 6:23 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #22

There is definitely an education bubble. It's way too easy to get money for college. You hear a lot of stories about the increasing costs of college and crushing debt on graduation, but you don't hear a lot of stories of "I wanted to go to college but couldn't get a loan". Almost everyone gets approved, regardless of their future ability to pay it back. We need a fundamental shift in the way college is paid for. Some…

> Almost everyone gets approved, regardless of their future ability to pay it back.

Because student loans are the one kind of debt that can stick through bankruptcy, so it's a great investment!

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#193

Post by jedberg » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 6:25 PM UTC

ahoka wrote: post #186

jedberg wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, which is why this would be a special additional tax that is just for college graduates and just goes back to the colleges.

Also a special tax for sick people?

We have that. It's called insurance.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#194

Post by hmschreck » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 6:25 PM UTC

cloakandswagger wrote: post #142

simias wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A similar number of people" developing a brand of hero worship for scientists? Maybe I'm hugely biased but that doesn't really mirror what I see online and elsewhere. Are you telling me that for every climate change denier, for every anti-vaxxer, for every creationist, for every chemtrail/tap water/moon landing/flat earth conspiracy theorist there's a rabid scientist who elevates the current scientific consensus to…

The "March for Science" that happened earlier this year had estimated attendance of 1.07 million. Now go to Google Images and search for "March for Science". Nearly every sign I see is either political in nature, elevating science to a level of religion/infallibility, or casting science as a fashion/meme ("Scientific is the new chic", "Science isn't wrong", "In science we trust").

I would say that much of this is directly related to how anti-science many leaders are now.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#195

Post by FLUX-YOU » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 6:25 PM UTC

dweekly wrote: post #119

crocal wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, let’s find some flashy Valley name for the concept and disrupt the market.

Personalized Education ICOs. Everyone gets their own token redeemable for a portion of lifetime earnings and tradable on an exchange. Traders can go long on an investment or short you if they forsee the market digesting an event decreasing your likely lifetime earnings.

ILOs - Initial Life Offerings

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#196

Post by hmschreck » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 6:26 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #83

umbrellathorn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for a useless degree they'll never use I went to school for such a degree. While I don't use it in my day to day now, I still consider it priceless. There's some inherent value added to a person who pursues to study a bit of humanities, history, philosophy and art in college apart from their major. Scholarly work really helps shape the way you look at life for the better. Part of this is that you really understand…

There is the problem. I have full respect for "useless" degrees. If people want one then they should get one. However since it is "useless" you should not be mortgaging your future to get it. Get a "real job" first and pay for the degree out of your pocket, perhaps taking night classes. As a member of society I need you to take care of yourself. You are a burden on society if you don't have a productive job paying yo…

I think it's also important to note that even people with useless degrees having higher earning potential simply by virtue of having a degree, and there is real social value in having someone who is educated in something for its own sake.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#197

Post by QAPereo » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 6:27 PM UTC

workthrowaway27 wrote: post #120

QAPereo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be hard to justify serving in the US military in terms of morality, personal risk, and long term health consequences.

Maybe ask the people who've served in it? Most people I know who were in the military don't regret it.

My grandfather served, my father served, a good friend of mine served then died in Iraq, another is still serving.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#198

Post by vec » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 6:27 PM UTC

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #155

jackweirdy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another solution is to let you go to school for free and then pay a percent of all your future earnings back to your college, or at least into a pool that pays for the next generation's college. We could call it income tax :)

The problem with subsidizing college in any way, including the current student loan system is that it encourages people to go to college whether it makes sense or not, and as several people have mentioned in this discussion, in a lot of cases, it doesn't make sense. Anyone who is properly motivated should be able to go to college, but when I hear cries for a free college education, I can imagine that that would stimu…

Yeah, but isn't that also the "problem" with subsidizing K-12 public school? One doesn't need a high school education to wait tables or stock shelves, and most apprenticeships and trade schools could probably be started several years earlier without issue.

We used to have this Enlightenment ideal of a Liberal Arts Education. It served as job training, sure, but it also tried to make its recipients better citizens and more adept thinkers and more capable adults and, broadly speaking, more effective human beings in a bunch of socially and culturally important ways. I'm optimistic that free college tuition would be a net gain for the economy, but I also strongly suspect that it's worth doing even if it costs us some economic growth.

Besides, if someone wants to take a 4 year vacation, they're already well within their rights to just not get a job and do whatever they like with their early 20s right now, presuming they can cover their living expenses somehow. Free college tuition doesn't actually allow anyone who wouldn't otherwise be able to to slack off, but it does give them something socially positive to do with their slacking.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#199

Post by wutangson1 » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 6:28 PM UTC

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #155

jackweirdy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another solution is to let you go to school for free and then pay a percent of all your future earnings back to your college, or at least into a pool that pays for the next generation's college. We could call it income tax :)

The problem with subsidizing college in any way, including the current student loan system is that it encourages people to go to college whether it makes sense or not, and as several people have mentioned in this discussion, in a lot of cases, it doesn't make sense. Anyone who is properly motivated should be able to go to college, but when I hear cries for a free college education, I can imagine that that would stimu…

where did this concept of college as a 4 year vacation come from? You have to show up to class, study, be diligent, and apply effective time management skills. Otherwise, you'll be put on academic probation and then kicked out. Even for those people who seem to have a knack for finding lax professors and classes, coasting is not necessarily a college student thing.

Re: Student Loan Debt Is Now as Big as the U.S. Junk Bond Market

#200

Post by zzzzzzzza » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 6:28 PM UTC

etr-strike wrote: post #99

When the next recession strikes, interest rates have no place to go but into negative territory. The rates will be either explicitly negative, or effectively negative (inflation higher than interest rates). When that happens, bitcoin will be the only safe haven in the world to protect your wealth. The bubble people will be changing their tune very quick.

Japan already has negative interest rates - what's more the japanese central bank is literally buying up their stock market (a far far more inflationary version of qe than buying long term gov bonds which are basically equivalent to cash at this point anyway)... Now there is one question left to you... with all that going on, what is Japan's inflation rate?