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Lost Einsteins: The Innovations We’re Missing

nytimes.com

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Re: Lost Einsteins: The Innovations We’re Missing

#61

Post by meebs »

meri_dian wrote: post #59
traverseda wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Profoundly gifted people generally do rise to the top as our system is already structured, assuming they want to, given the average amount of support. In the US? What makes you think that?

Well the public and private school system which the vast majority of youth in the US take part in has mechanisms for identifying the gifted. Those who excel in school generally go on in life to better themselves. Most people are not profoundly gifted, so the majority simply do as well as their parents, give or take.

Except for the horrendous public schools that are everywhere in the USA? Or is it that there are simply very, very few gifted people in poor areas? Poor minorities are genetically less talented is your thesis?

The distorted perspective of reality by the wealthy on HackerNews never ceases to amaze.

Re: Lost Einsteins: The Innovations We’re Missing

#62

Post by meebs »

fudgepack99 wrote: post #53
ozy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are saying one thing, but describing another. We want people to always have good opportunities to bootstrap themselves out of a terrible situation (your gutter and wallmart situations). But we don't want to remove all the rewards from turning time into value. "brutally enforced system of authoritarian capitalism" think you have a few opinions there that are deeply rooted in feelings ... When you are alone on an i…

You're pretty clueless as to the history of capitalism. From war is a racket: "I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil intersts in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragu…

I would argue that the lack of knowledge of its own history is an intentional failing of the American education system. I would hope it'd be much more difficult to be so patriotic once you know the full extent of the misdeeds of the "land of the free".

Re: Lost Einsteins: The Innovations We’re Missing

#63

Post by ataturk »

jerkstate wrote: post #18

How does this jive with the Silicon Valley trope that ideas aren't worth very much in and of themselves, but the people and teams who can execute on them are?

It's "jibe" not "jive" although some people are trying to normalize jive because it sounds better, I guess. Jibe is a nautical term, jive is an inner-city dialect circa 1970s.

Re: Lost Einsteins: The Innovations We’re Missing

#64

Post by ozy »

fudgepack99 wrote: post #53
ozy wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are saying one thing, but describing another. We want people to always have good opportunities to bootstrap themselves out of a terrible situation (your gutter and wallmart situations). But we don't want to remove all the rewards from turning time into value. "brutally enforced system of authoritarian capitalism" think you have a few opinions there that are deeply rooted in feelings ... When you are alone on an i…

You're pretty clueless as to the history of capitalism. From war is a racket: "I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil intersts in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragu…

Why am I "pretty clueless" when your comment does not even address anything I said, let alone counter it?

You add a whole different perspective, but one that is fully compatible on top of what I said, nobody is denying that part of capitalism. Powerful people, no matter what system, can do horrible things without regard for the victims ... and under capitalism companies can become powerful too.

Re: Lost Einsteins: The Innovations We’re Missing

#65

Post by owlmirror »

musage wrote: post #38
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

What's interesting is that the great innovations of the early 20th century, weren't by a diverse group of people. Eastern European Jews (of which Einstein was a member) produced a disproportionate amount of those discoveries. This was despite the fact that they were among the most persecuted groups in history. Because of this, I don't think that US government policy is the major reason for the differences in the arti…

Einstein was born in Southern Germany, with ancestors that had been there for centuries. German Wikipedia describes his family as "assimilated, non-orthodox, Jewish-German middleclass" and quotes him as being grateful to his town of birth, Ulm, for part of his character. English WP says "The Einsteins were non-observant Ashkenazi Jews", and he got the arguable most important part of his education in Switzerland where…

That does not mean that Jews didn't face sharp and harsh discrimination by the very widespread and strong antisemitism at the time. Arguably they were one of the most prosecuted people in European history. And despite all that they still fared very well in comparison to the majority population.

Which makes the narrative that the lack of success in other groups is entirely grounded in lack of opportunity due to discrimination, rather shaky.

Re: Lost Einsteins: The Innovations We’re Missing

#66

Post by fudgepack99 »

ozy wrote: post #64
fudgepack99 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're pretty clueless as to the history of capitalism. From war is a racket: "I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil intersts in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragu…

Why am I "pretty clueless" when your comment does not even address anything I said, let alone counter it? You add a whole different perspective, but one that is fully compatible on top of what I said, nobody is denying that part of capitalism. Powerful people, no matter what system, can do horrible things without regard for the victims ... and under capitalism companies can become powerful too.

You don't understand what is happening, the elites are at war with all citizens of their respective states because they fear the free flow of information through their society. That is why are collecting everything. Go view the privacy video and skip to 1:02:30 and watch.

So hear it from national security advisor of the united states. If you are the non fraction of the 1% you are the enemy, aka spying is aimed at politically controlling your perception because they know your brain doesn't see the world as it is. See the science:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

Every citizen called a "global menace" here by Zbig:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZyJw_cHJY

Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349

Government does not work for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYFxtNgOeiI

Book:

http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf

Privacy video

https://theintercept.com/a-conversation-about-privacy/

Re: Lost Einsteins: The Innovations We’re Missing

#67

Post by owlmirror »

lucozade wrote: post #49

Good God this is infuriating. The single most anomalous figure in the whole article and not one word about it. Surely, the over representation of people of Asian descent in this, and similar findings, is worthy of some analysis? I appreciate it spoils the narrative but, if people actually cared, it must make sense to look at the systemic cases that buck the trend. At the very least acknowledge it. Completely ignoring…

It's social science, where theories don't need to be falsifiable and data is only used to support you ideology and adapted to fit your narrative but never used to challenge some sacred a priori believes.

Re: Lost Einsteins: The Innovations We’re Missing

#68

Post by psoy »

meri_dian wrote: post #59
traverseda wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Profoundly gifted people generally do rise to the top as our system is already structured, assuming they want to, given the average amount of support. In the US? What makes you think that?

Well the public and private school system which the vast majority of youth in the US take part in has mechanisms for identifying the gifted. Those who excel in school generally go on in life to better themselves. Most people are not profoundly gifted, so the majority simply do as well as their parents, give or take.

I don't know, wouldn't be so sure without actual supporting data.

Anecdotally I know many talented people who got "broken" at high school level (due to any number of issues, from poverty to physical and emotional trauma). Having connections, mentors, initial capital, educated family, it all helps a lot.

This is not US-specific either, I made it to the US from a war-torn country across the globe with no money or connections, but I am extremely stubborn. There were definitely people who didn't make it this far who arguably had the pure IQ advantage.

Re: Lost Einsteins: The Innovations We’re Missing

#69

Post by meri_dian »

ataturk wrote: post #57
afpx wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree that ‘cogs’ are necessary. However, shouldn’t the individual be able to decide that, not the educational system? The current system doesn’t enrich children in ways that allow kids to explore other options. Look up successful technology company founders - you’ll see that many went to alternative schools like Montessori. But, the vast majority of kids don’t have access to that type of exploratory education.…

Interesting comment. I grew up in a blue-ish collar rust-belt city, was "gifted" (whatever that means) and ended up getting a PhD (no debts, though) that I now arguably don't make money from. Everything you mentioned is very common, but I'm not sure that observation points to some kind of change we can make versus the underlying day to day realities of the US circa 2017. My big takeaway from years inside higher educa…

What did you get your PhD in, from what quality school, and did you pursue a faculty position with the expectation of wealth?

Re: Lost Einsteins: The Innovations We’re Missing

#70

Post by ozy »

fudgepack99 wrote: post #66
ozy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why am I "pretty clueless" when your comment does not even address anything I said, let alone counter it? You add a whole different perspective, but one that is fully compatible on top of what I said, nobody is denying that part of capitalism. Powerful people, no matter what system, can do horrible things without regard for the victims ... and under capitalism companies can become powerful too.

You don't understand what is happening, the elites are at war with all citizens of their respective states because they fear the free flow of information through their society. That is why are collecting everything. Go view the privacy video and skip to 1:02:30 and watch. So hear it from national security advisor of the united states. If you are the non fraction of the 1% you are the enemy, aka spying is aimed at pol…

Again, since I didn't talk about those issues, you cannot conclude what I do or do not know.
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