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Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

theguardian.com

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Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#81

Post by KozmoNau7 »

paulcole wrote: post #53
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if both parties have perfect and complete information about the true costs. In this example, he's selling himself way short, his entire online privacy for a few silly videos.

Is there a way to get more value in exchange for my online privacy? Would be interested to find out a way to get more value out of an asset I don't value highly.

No. It's a flawed premise, since you are not actually part of the negotiation. You are not the customer, you are the product being traded.

The only way you can change this is to insist on your privacy being respected, by using tools to inhibit tracking, and by voting with your wallet, by choosing services and vendors who respect your right to privacy.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#82

Post by KozmoNau7 »

paulcole wrote: post #52
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it's a fair trade? Your personal information, privacy and security is worth so much more than a few measly videos or games.

Personally, I disagree. I don't have a lot of money but I like reading articles and playing games. I don't place any significant value on my personal information, privacy, and security, so why not trade it away? I'd much rather do that than have to start paying for games, news, articles, etc.

Because you're selling it for way way too cheap.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#83

Post by blub »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #73

I can’t say I’m thrilled with using Crashlytics in my own iOS apps, but I’m not aware of any better options when it comes to crash tracking. A handful of crashes come in through Apple’s opt in crash report sharing but when compared to the data I’m getting from Crashlytics, it’s clear that a lot of info is missing. If I relied only on manually submitted bug reports and what Apple is telling me, I never would’ve come t…

It's not privacy vs stability, that's a favourite red herring around here.

The problem is your development process is not capable of producing stable enough software. I don't know why that's the case, but you should work on that first.

Deming: "Inspection does not improve the quality, nor guarantee quality. Inspection is too late. The quality, good or bad, is already in the product. As Harold F. Dodge said, “You can not inspect quality into a product"". This goes even more for crash-reporting quality into a product.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#84

Post by blub »

shostack wrote: post #62
sjbase wrote: post #54

This thread is a really interesting example of how easily humans can simultaneously hold conflicting beliefs/opinions. I'm gathering that a lot of developers and businesspeople here: a) are very concerned about collection of their own data b) derive material value from Crashlytics, Mixpanel and other "tracking tools" for their work It's tricky to reconcile those two ideas.

I'm a good example of this. I'm an ad guy and a marketer, and as such I'm much more intimately familiar with how this stuff works, what it collects, and how it is used than most. I'm also going to expand what I say beyond just the world of apps, because it is really applicable to anything digital these days, whether it is in an app or on the web, because I hate thinking of those things in silos. To be a successful ma…

If you really cared about privacy you would have quit your job and would have found a decent way of making a living. You’re just making excuses and you’re trying to elicit sympathy.

It costs next to nothing to add a toggle in an app which disables analytics. If the company’s too lame to have an on-boarding screen where they ask the user for permission, they could even hide it in the settings.

And yet almost no companies do any of the above, because the only thing they care about is money. Crushing these abusive marketing efforts with regulation is the only workable solution, we've already seen what the industry's best effort looks like with "Do Not Track".

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#85

Post by blub »

sjbase wrote: post #66
shostack wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a good example of this. I'm an ad guy and a marketer, and as such I'm much more intimately familiar with how this stuff works, what it collects, and how it is used than most. I'm also going to expand what I say beyond just the world of apps, because it is really applicable to anything digital these days, whether it is in an app or on the web, because I hate thinking of those things in silos. To be a successful ma…

> My guess is the people who have such black and white views haven't ever been tasked with marketing a product in a true professional capacity This is so, so true and in such a broad way. I've had this thought gnawing at me for ages that these people who are doing seemingly evil things (think James Comey, Ajit Pai) have likely been tested in ways I never have. Who knows how I would handle being in their situation? I…

You can turn that argument on its head: you've never worked in consumer/media/ads because it's an abusive industry which self-selects for certain types of individuals that don't care about the privacy of others.

Nowadays they notice the public's displeasure and feel obliged to pay some lip-service, right before going back to abusing the trust of their customers.

I understand it's hard for marketing professionals to resist with so much pressure coming at them. That's why I think they should be supported by laws forbidding their abusive practices. Then it should be much easier to say no. Bonus: shostack wouldn't be bothered by all that cognitive dissonance.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#86

Post by blub »

nerdponx wrote: post #64
shostack wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a good example of this. I'm an ad guy and a marketer, and as such I'm much more intimately familiar with how this stuff works, what it collects, and how it is used than most. I'm also going to expand what I say beyond just the world of apps, because it is really applicable to anything digital these days, whether it is in an app or on the web, because I hate thinking of those things in silos. To be a successful ma…

Thanks for your input. I think the best thing you could do here is to set your moral compass and follow it no matter what. That includes speaking up when the line between "market research" and "surveillance" is crossed under your watch. The fact that you aren't a mindless revenue robot (I have worked with them) is a good start.

One cannot follow their moral compass in an abusive industry - they cannot change their environment, the environment changes them.

The only thing OP can do is quit, but let's be honest here... they've been in the industry for a while and they're ok with what's happening.

How do I know that? Tomorrow they'll go to work and they will work on ads and tracking. Always follow what people do, not what they say. Posting on HN is cheap.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#87

Post by TeeWEE »

This is completely normal, just like any (web,ios) app, apps are generating analytics point to know how the app is doing, and where to improve. If an app doesnt have a 3rd party analytics tool, you can be almost certain they are using an inhouse tool.

These tools never really track individual users outside of the app context.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#88

Post by dep_b »

_up wrote: post #35
dep_b wrote: post #31

Something like a trackblocker could be the next step for privacy concerned companies. Or an opt-in variety.

That is already a thing. There are lists you can subscribe your adblocker to. They also cover Malware, Badware, Resource Abuse (Bitcoin Miners), Anti Cookie, Anti Social, Anti Adblock and more.

Sorry for not being clear. I mean a track blocker that blocks applications from tracking you. Of course I've took measures in my browsers already.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#89

Post by lightswitch05 »

jtmcmc wrote: post #71
lightswitch05 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the point of the article is that the data belongs in 3rd party hands. You might not be doing anything nefarious with the data, but that data does not belong to you and it is outside of your control to protect your users. Given IP addresses, device identifiers, application identifiers, and timestamps - these 3rd party applications now have some pretty valuable signals that can be aggregated with other signal…

many of those third parties do not own the data - the data is owned by whoever's account (will obviously vary).

That is like saying Facebook does not own the content uploaded to it. These analytic tools are the ones doing the collection, at the end of the day it is their data that they allow you to use.

Re: Three quarters of Android apps track users with third party tools

#90

Post by Feniks »

blub wrote: post #84
shostack wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a good example of this. I'm an ad guy and a marketer, and as such I'm much more intimately familiar with how this stuff works, what it collects, and how it is used than most. I'm also going to expand what I say beyond just the world of apps, because it is really applicable to anything digital these days, whether it is in an app or on the web, because I hate thinking of those things in silos. To be a successful ma…

If you really cared about privacy you would have quit your job and would have found a decent way of making a living. You’re just making excuses and you’re trying to elicit sympathy. It costs next to nothing to add a toggle in an app which disables analytics. If the company’s too lame to have an on-boarding screen where they ask the user for permission, they could even hide it in the settings. And yet almost no compan…

I've seen apps that asked me to submit a crash report. That seems like a better solution than monitoring all the data all the time.

But I don't think it is REALLY about improving the app.

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