How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways • Hacker News Board

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#311

Post by pavel_lishin » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 2:34 AM UTC

pravda wrote: post #99

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People wonder "why is the subway so filthy?" Because we run our system 24/7. We can’t flood our stations with bleach like they do in D.C.

From the NYT article comments: "In terms of cleanliness, which is also an issue of public health - why doesn't MTA have a dedicated crew of 4 or 5 people with a power washer, soap and squeegees to move methodically through each station, working on the weekends or overnight? " Can't have it, because the MTA is not in the moving-people-business, they are in the wealth-transfer-business.

They do have those teams. I've seen them work; they've got power washers, and they blast the stations. They cleaned my previous-local station once every few months, at least.

The stations don't stay clean because they move millions of people per day, not all of whom are clean. Today I saw a kid throwing up on her way into the station; she and her mother were somehow polite enough to pause above a drain to do so. Combine that with people tracking upstairs dirt in, and littering, intentional and accidental (I dropped a candy wrapper while getting my kid home; I'm not stopping to pick it up mid-tantrum), and you've got a pretty messy situation.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#312

Post by t3po7re5 » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 3:54 AM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #36

zzzzzzzza wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wait you paid 3 dollars for an hour of uber? How does that make sense? The minimum wage is way more than that.

Maybe he's saying that he drove himself for $3 in gas (while conveniently ignoring all the other costs of car ownership, not to mention the massive externalities).

Yep, sorry forgot to mention its roughly $3 in gas / oil and maybe $3 in depreciation of the vehicle?

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#313

Post by StanislavPetrov » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 8:15 AM UTC

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #240

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In New York we have a public service union for virtually every public employee. Politicians buy the votes and political support of these unions (and their union members). This means that the average cop, transit worker, prison guard, and members of most other public service unions often make well over $100,000 a year salary (plus massive benefits) with many making upwards of $200,000 a year (with some making far more…

How the heck is this even possible? 200k a year to be a cop? Talk about hitting the lottery.. How is this even allowed? Is the crime rate even that high? Isn't Nassau County one of the richest county's in the United States?

Crime is low. Its possible because year after year the public service unions (police, prison guard, transit, ect) and a variety of other political patronage groups sell their endorsement for higher pay and better contracts. So every year the salaries and benefits continue to rise. This has been going on for decades. These salaries and benefits represent the vast majority of our county/city/village budgets and result in massive property taxes (and other taxes and fees) to support the bloated payroll. Its not sustainable and as a result we have seen infrastructure (like the rails and the roads) and other critical services suffer.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#314

Post by golemiprague » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 10:31 AM UTC

vog wrote: post #153

jacobush wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True I guess, except for the part where it was a hodgepodge of tribes before the 60s too? Or am I missing something.

And except that the "protestant hard working American ethos" (perhaps "protestant/puritan work ethic" was meant?) somehow leads to increased productivity - which it doesn't. Oh, and except for the perception that the USA is very leftist. Really, from a European point of view, it's quite the reverse.

The 60's changed America and the leftists thinking took over the media, academia and culture. The fact that America doesn't have the same social service as in Europe is not the issue here. It is the destruction of the American homogenous culture and replacement of values.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#315

Post by inferiorhuman » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 10:32 AM UTC

Arnt wrote: post #124

inferiorhuman wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the same route miles, and are similarly old. Yet NYC’s system costs almost twice as much to run. My two cents: things are more expensive in the United States due to us insisting on being so different in two major ways: 1.) Different safety and road standards. All of Europe, as well as many other countries have completely or partially adopted European r…

TfL is. Everyone does that. It's part of the taxes that employers pay on top of salaries. That's part of the reason why the cost of an employee is so much higher than the salary, and it's one of the costs you save by having nominally independent contractors instead of employees. TfL does have good planning, though, and is largely able to fix things before they grow too expensive. https://pedestrianobservations.com/ca…

> TfL is. Everyone does that. It's part of the taxes that employers pay on top of salaries.

Right, but TfL is paying into a system that every working Briton pays into. What the New York MTA pays into (mostly) is a scheme that benefits a much smaller group.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#316

Post by stult » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 2:49 PM UTC

exceptionalism wrote: post #245

stult wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you're ignoring massive swathes of infrastructure types. Containerization has led to a complete revamping of US ports during that period. The electrical infrastructure has been massively upgraded, including a huge decrease in coal fired plants. While passenger trains haven't been improved at all, freight train usage has grown rapidly and the already very extensive rail lines have been maintained (conflicting de…

None of that infrasture is unique, impressive or better done than in Europe. The point is that Europe did all that and more. By the looks of it Europe just does public infrastructure better.

Well, that wasn't the point I was responding to. I was replying to this claim, "When is the last time America built any impressive infrastructure? I'd say in the 70s."

But to your point, I would argue that US achievements on the internet and cell networks are more impressive than Europe's because unlike Europeans Americans invented those technologies from scratch. And other than Russia, the US is the only country with a GPS infrastructure at all.

I don't dispute the claim that European nations and the EU have generally done a better job investing in public infrastructure, but I think the gap isn't as bad as some in this thread have made out, especially when you consider the vastly different conditions under which those policies were made. I've lived in a lot of countries, including the US and two European nations, and I've worked in project finance, so I have some direct experience with this. That said, the US desperately needs to invest in bridges and several other categories of infrastructure.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#317

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 2:56 PM UTC

stult wrote: post #316

exceptionalism wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of that infrasture is unique, impressive or better done than in Europe. The point is that Europe did all that and more. By the looks of it Europe just does public infrastructure better.

Well, that wasn't the point I was responding to. I was replying to this claim, "When is the last time America built any impressive infrastructure? I'd say in the 70s." But to your point, I would argue that US achievements on the internet and cell networks are more impressive than Europe's because unlike Europeans Americans invented those technologies from scratch. And other than Russia, the US is the only country wit…

> And other than Russia, the US is the only country with a GPS infrastructure at all.

Wrong; there are three operational global navigation satellite systems: GPS (US), GLONASS (Russia), and Galileo (EU). China has a regional (Asia-Pacific) system that they are in the process of upgrading to global coverage, as well.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#318

Post by dajohnson89 » Tue, Nov 21, 2017, 2:57 PM UTC

francisofascii wrote: post #297

rhino369 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I make the same choice and it is ridiculous. I live a block from a station and work from a block from another station on the same line. And somehow average commute time is 45 min. And it's only ~4 miles away. Lyft costs under 10 bucks and takes under 15 minutes if I leave after 9:45.

Metro has its problems but avg. commute time of 45 min. for 4 miles seems high to me. Unless you mean Bethesda to Silver Spring.

For example, take Columbia Heights to Foggy Bottom. 2 transfers (yellow/green -> red -> blue/orange/silver). Red line is red line, expect 10 minutes on the weekends if you're lucky. The B/O/S at metro center are frequent enough (except when they're not; I've seen 20minute headways enough times that I'm leery of even trying), but the Green/Yellow lines I see an average wait time of 10-12 minutes on the weekends. That's about 20-30 minutes of waiting.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#319

Post by mlrtime » Tue, Nov 28, 2017, 3:07 PM UTC

nerfhammer wrote: post #292

mlrtime wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From Manhattan, you need to take 3 trains to get to EWR. Subway, Path (NJT), shuttle. LGA: None JFK: Subway,AirtRain Compare this with HKG or LHR, it is pathetic.

nitpick: PATH != NJT. PATH is run by the Port Authority. NJT commuter rail is what connects to EWR AirTrain. Also, don't take the subway to/from JFK, take LIRR it's like 40 minutes faster.

That should be PATH || NJT as you can take NJT directly to the tram.