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How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

nytimes.com

261–270 of 319 posts

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#261

DC's system is pretty bad too. this morning I had to choose between a 50 minute commute via metro for $4, or a 20 minute Uber ride for $10. I'm so so glad I got the Uber.

I make the same choice and it is ridiculous. I live a block from a station and work from a block from another station on the same line. And somehow average commute time is 45 min. And it's only ~4 miles away.

Lyft costs under 10 bucks and takes under 15 minutes if I leave after 9:45.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#262
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Containers, cell phone networks, the Internet, internet banking etc is infrastructure that has been built and implemented in the rest of the Western World as well, many places to a higher degree or more advanced than in the US, while still maintaining and expanding roads, rails, electrical grid, subways and airports. You are right that the US has lower population density than most of Europe, but Canada doesn't and it…

> the US has lower population density than most of Europe, but Canada doesn't Population maps of the US [1] and Canada [2] highlight the problem with this argument, though. Canada has low total density, but it's overwhelmingly concentrated around the southern border of the country. The US concentrates population along three coastlines and the Great Lakes, and has more population to support in the low-concentration ar…

If you exclude tiny Prince Edwards Island, the most densely populated Canadian province is Nova Scotia (with 17.4 Canadians per km2). More than 90 percent of Americans live in states have higher population density than the densest populated Canadian province. Only Maine, Oregon, Utah, Kansas, Nevada, Nebraska, Idaho, New Mexico, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming and Alaska are more empty. Those 13 states account for less than 10 percent of Americans.

So - on a state by state / province by province basis, Americans live more close together than Canadians and should have better opportunity for maintaining infrastructure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_populat...

And just like Canadians tend to cram together close to the coasts and the Great Lakes, Americans also cram together close to the Great Lakes and their coasts. Go 50 miles inland from either coast, and it's vastly less populated than near the coast, with the rivers as an exception. Take a drive from Buffalo to NYC, and you'll see that it's populated near Buffalo (Great lakes), somewhat near Albany (Hudson river) and again once you get near NYC (East Coast). The rest of NY State is rural.

Take a look at this map of US population density by county: http://i.imgur.com/hY8tpOn.jpg

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#263
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US has lower population density than most of Europe, but Canada doesn't Population maps of the US [1] and Canada [2] highlight the problem with this argument, though. Canada has low total density, but it's overwhelmingly concentrated around the southern border of the country. The US concentrates population along three coastlines and the Great Lakes, and has more population to support in the low-concentration ar…

If you exclude tiny Prince Edwards Island, the most densely populated Canadian province is Nova Scotia (with 17.4 Canadians per km2). More than 90 percent of Americans live in states have higher population density than the densest populated Canadian province. Only Maine, Oregon, Utah, Kansas, Nevada, Nebraska, Idaho, New Mexico, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming and Alaska are more empty. Those 13 states a…

Statistics don’t tell the story. Look at a population density map of Ontario.

30% of Canadians live in Ontario. About half of Ontarians live in the Toronto metro area alone. Overall about half the population lives in the top ten metro areas.

http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/as-sa/97-550...

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#264

What's most obscene is that no effort is made to compensate for lost trains on partially shutdown express/local lines. The mayor could fix that immediately by just demanding more service on the sections that run rather than forcing everyone into sardine cans. It's pretty clear that MTA is using repairs as an excuse to cut spending on service and are unlikely to ever run it at full capacity. The system carried more pa…

To be fair, the 4/5 between Union Square and 125th St is a sardine can from 7-10 AM and 5-7 PM daily even when they run every 3 minutes or whatever the rush hour gap is.

That's also largely a function of poor/no subway access on the East Side. It took a long time to get the Second Ave. subway running, and that doesn't even come close to servicing Alphabet City.

The west side has multiple lines (red & blue, plus the yellow line starting around midtown) while the east side only has the green line (and the yellow line south of Union Sq.).

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my experience of the US as well. Not only the state of the roads, but the poor quality of the buildings, and the incredible number of power cuts. It was more reminiscent to me of the third world than the richest country in the world.

>"This was my experience of the US as well. Not only the state of the roads, but the poor quality of the buildings, and the incredible number of power cuts." Power cuts? This comment can not be taken seriously. Power cuts in the US are quite exceptional and generally concern circumstance such natural disasters or a severe heat wave. An "incredible number"? Yeah right.

Maybe you're right. I'm trying to find hard facts on this, but it looks like not much data is submitted:

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=27892

I've experienced quite a number when I've been there, and it's possible that I've been very unlucky.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This leaves us with no levers of power over government decisions. I'm not sure I understand this. Yes, the hand-picked successor will be able to fulfill the rest of the term, but then he's up for re-election. If people were actually outraged about this, they could vote him out the next time there's an election (just like they could have voted out the predecessor that set this process in motion). If people were real…

> I'm not sure I understand this. Yes, the hand-picked successor will be able to fulfill the rest of the term, but then he's up for re-election. If people were actually outraged about this, they could vote him out the next time there's an election (just like they could have voted out the predecessor that set this process in motion). Not if they run unopposed in both the primary and general election. New York election…

> New York election law is incredibly arcane and structurally makes it almost impossible to win a primary without the backing of the party, and the two parties have an agreement not to compete seriously in each other's districts. It's like how Comcast and Time Warner Cable divide up turf, so they don't ever really have to compete for the same customers.

Can you give an example of these election laws? I see you mentioned a delay in switching parties elsewhere in the thread, but I don’t see how that makes it impossible for a candidate to win a primary without party backing.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#267
post #129

I've never been to New York and I've don't know much about the subway system but I was watching a documentary recently that showed they were building some new platforms underneath Grand Central station. I think from memory they were also building new lines to cope with the massive stress the service is under, so it looks like these problems are trying to be resolved?

Grand Central is having new platforms built for the Long Island Railroad (LIRR), which is a commenter train system that is separate from the subway system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Side_Access

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#268
post #135
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the NYT article comments: "In terms of cleanliness, which is also an issue of public health - why doesn't MTA have a dedicated crew of 4 or 5 people with a power washer, soap and squeegees to move methodically through each station, working on the weekends or overnight? " Can't have it, because the MTA is not in the moving-people-business, they are in the wealth-transfer-business.

In fact, MTA have been investing in vacuum cleaning systems for the tracks with the aim of reducing fires that lead to delays. You're being disingenuous. Here's an article: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/nyregion/with-new-vacuums... So it's frankly absurd of the commenter to say that just 4-5 people could manage this task. One manager mentioned in the article leads a team of 300(!) cleaners.

That's the subway tracks. They are forced to clean debris off the subway tracks, otherwise the trains can't run.

But where the people are, the stations, they don't keep them clean. That's what the commenter was refering to.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#269
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you exclude tiny Prince Edwards Island, the most densely populated Canadian province is Nova Scotia (with 17.4 Canadians per km2). More than 90 percent of Americans live in states have higher population density than the densest populated Canadian province. Only Maine, Oregon, Utah, Kansas, Nevada, Nebraska, Idaho, New Mexico, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming and Alaska are more empty. Those 13 states a…

Statistics don’t tell the story. Look at a population density map of Ontario. 30% of Canadians live in Ontario. About half of Ontarians live in the Toronto metro area alone. Overall about half the population lives in the top ten metro areas. http://www12.statcan.ca/census-recensement/2006/as-sa/97-550...

Look at the map I linked to. It’s the same in New York State, Texas and California.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my experience of the US as well. Not only the state of the roads, but the poor quality of the buildings, and the incredible number of power cuts. It was more reminiscent to me of the third world than the richest country in the world.

>"This was my experience of the US as well. Not only the state of the roads, but the poor quality of the buildings, and the incredible number of power cuts." Power cuts? This comment can not be taken seriously. Power cuts in the US are quite exceptional and generally concern circumstance such natural disasters or a severe heat wave. An "incredible number"? Yeah right.

This is highly variable. When I lived in rural Alabama, power outages sometimes would happen after strong thunderstorms but that was about it. More recently I lived in downtown Atlanta and power outages were pretty much a monthly occurrence. This was just down the street from the power company's headquarters and next to tourist attractions like the World of Coca-Cola and CNN. It still amazes me how fragile the power grid is in the central business district of a major city. How rural Alabama keeps power on better than the middle of a metro of nearly six million is a mystery.
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