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How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

nytimes.com

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Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#131

Post by matt4077 »

pattle wrote: post #129

I've never been to New York and I've don't know much about the subway system but I was watching a documentary recently that showed they were building some new platforms underneath Grand Central station. I think from memory they were also building new lines to cope with the massive stress the service is under, so it looks like these problems are trying to be resolved?

That's a different problem. They're building a new line, yes. But the problems are more with the reliability of the existing infrastructure.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#132

Post by StudentStuff »

vinay427 wrote: post #95
dionidium wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he's saying that he drove himself for $3 in gas (while conveniently ignoring all the other costs of car ownership, not to mention the massive externalities).

It's reasonable that if GP needs and already has a car for other non-commuting purposes (shopping, road trips, etc.) the choice in their specific case is between paying for public transit and only paying for gas to cover the commute.

Cost of insurance and wear & tear are direct costs of each trip outside gas, not including those (which is ~50% of the cost of each trip) is deceiving yourself.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#133

Post by matt4077 »

joering2 wrote: post #110
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #5

> ”... hundreds of mechanic positions have been cut because there is not enough money to pay them — even though the average total compensation for subway managers has grown to nearly $300,000 a year. ” I know this isn’t the primary reason the subway is falling into disrepair, but it’s clearly a symptom of a system that lacks real accountability. There has to be some reasonable push back to compensation (backed ultima…

Its gets worse than that; if you read further the reasoning is that "Its hard to buy apartment for less than $800,000 in Brooklyn". Great excuse next time they interview you for the job; check how much is average housing, divide roughly by three, and here is how you have reasonably arrived at your salary. If they look at you odd, just refer to NYT article.

Your wording is slightly ambiguous, but just to be clear: The NYT isn't making this argument, they're quoting someone.

(and the quote is $700,000, by the way)

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#134

Post by StudentStuff »

isostatic wrote: post #126
candiodari wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've often wondered though why companies like the MTA don't transform their networks into things like Elon Musk's boring company type network

Because the passengers per hour is far lower under musk's scheme.

We're talking 25k to 45k passengers an hour on a train versus ~1000 people per hour with Elon Musk's Boring company. It isn't even vaguely competitive.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#135

Post by cr1895 »

pravda wrote: post #99
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People wonder "why is the subway so filthy?" Because we run our system 24/7. We can’t flood our stations with bleach like they do in D.C.

From the NYT article comments: "In terms of cleanliness, which is also an issue of public health - why doesn't MTA have a dedicated crew of 4 or 5 people with a power washer, soap and squeegees to move methodically through each station, working on the weekends or overnight? " Can't have it, because the MTA is not in the moving-people-business, they are in the wealth-transfer-business.

In fact, MTA have been investing in vacuum cleaning systems for the tracks with the aim of reducing fires that lead to delays. You're being disingenuous. Here's an article:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/nyregion/with-new-vacuums...

So it's frankly absurd of the commenter to say that just 4-5 people could manage this task. One manager mentioned in the article leads a team of 300(!) cleaners.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#136

Post by dmitriid »

flexie wrote: post #114
notmtaemployee wrote: post #38

The MTA's problems begin and end at a weak senior management unwilling to standup to Cuomo's frivolous micromanagement and a transit union unwilling to modernize. Politicians should be pushing for serious procurement and labor work rule reforms, otherwise the systemic managerial and operational deficiencies will ensure that the deterioration of service we see now will repeat it self in 5 to 10 years, regardless of ho…

When is the last time America built any impressive infrastructure? I'd say in the 70s. Most airports, most of the interstate highway network, most subway systems, bridges, tunnels, and dams were built from the 1930s and on to the 1970s. The railroads are even older. And after that; Silence. It's like you didn't even care to maintain it. First time I arrived in America, I was taken aback by how old and run down everyt…

Not only the US. It seems the rest of the world managed to build most of their infrastructure in the 60s and 70s.

Now if you look at large infrastructure projects, they are much more expensive, and proceed at a glacial pace.

Except in China, of course.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#137

Post by matt4077 »

apexalpha wrote: post #121

>In one particularly egregious example, Mr. Cuomo’s administration forced the M.T.A. to send $5 million to bail out three state-run ski resorts that were struggling after a warm winter. What? Do American State-level governments not have checks in place for this kind of stuff? This sounds like something Mugabe would do for his private ski resorts, lol.

As your quote points out: these are state-run businesses. I'm sceptical of the sate running ski resorts. But ignoring that for a second, it's not out of the ordinary to cover a loss that was the result from extraordinary events such as a warm winter.

Presumably, they didn't have to bail them out in other years, meaning they ran a profit in other years.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#138

Post by masklinn »

notmtaemployee wrote: post #38

The MTA's problems begin and end at a weak senior management unwilling to standup to Cuomo's frivolous micromanagement and a transit union unwilling to modernize. Politicians should be pushing for serious procurement and labor work rule reforms, otherwise the systemic managerial and operational deficiencies will ensure that the deterioration of service we see now will repeat it self in 5 to 10 years, regardless of ho…

> London and Toronto have been able to modernize much of their transit systems in last 5 years and its not because they have more money. Once you fix the top everything else will fall into place.

TBF NYC does have the exceptional — almost unique — feature that it runs 24/7.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#139

Post by StanislavPetrov »

rayiner wrote: post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

In New York we have a public service union for virtually every public employee. Politicians buy the votes and political support of these unions (and their union members). This means that the average cop, transit worker, prison guard, and members of most other public service unions often make well over $100,000 a year salary (plus massive benefits) with many making upwards of $200,000 a year (with some making far more than that) plus full retirement after 20 years with a full pension for life. That means if you start working for the city or county at 21, you retire at 41, with a full pension and benefits for life (which needless to say, is a crushing financial cost).

As of 2014 over 100,000 MTA workers in New York City were making over $100,000 a year each, not counting benefits or pension costs.

https://www.empirecenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/MTA-...

Take the time to see how many pages of police offers you have to scroll through in Nassau County New York alone before you get to a page where they start making under $200,000 a year.

http://data.newsday.com/long-island/data/nassau/payroll-2015...;

I'm all for paying people a living wage, but its not hard to understand how, when you are spending countless billions (that increase every year) on paying countless cops and other public service workers $200,000+ a year how there is no money left over for maintaining (or, god forbid, upgrading) equipment. It doesn't matter which corporate party you vote for - Democrats and Republicans are both corrupt to the core and falling over themselves to secure these service-union votes. As a result our infrastructure is going to continue to crumble and our debt will continue to rise until we reach a breaking point which won't be pretty.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#140

Post by TheReveller »

slg wrote: post #77
rayiner wrote: post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

>The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the same route miles, and are similarly old. Yet NYC’s system costs almost twice as much to run. There is one fundamental difference between the two systems and that is that the London Tube stops service overnight while the New York City Subway remains open 24/7/365. Having a nightly maintenance window of several hours in which they can do preventive ma…

The NY subway is also able to run 24/7 because of redundancies in routes, so they can perform maintenance without the subway stopping. London doesn't have this option.
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