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How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

nytimes.com

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Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#111

Post by gggvvh »

pravda wrote: post #99
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People wonder "why is the subway so filthy?" Because we run our system 24/7. We can’t flood our stations with bleach like they do in D.C.

From the NYT article comments: "In terms of cleanliness, which is also an issue of public health - why doesn't MTA have a dedicated crew of 4 or 5 people with a power washer, soap and squeegees to move methodically through each station, working on the weekends or overnight? " Can't have it, because the MTA is not in the moving-people-business, they are in the wealth-transfer-business.

You clearly have an agenda dude. Don’t think it’s worth discussing anything with you.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#112

Post by maksimum »

cgmg wrote: post #109
mjmahone17 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, let’s have more deadly, congestion-inducing, loud and smog-producing private buses filling up our streets, rather than making a cheap, electrified mass transit system better. The Queens to Chinatown bus fills a gap in services from Flushing to Chinatown. If that bus is really transporting multiple subway trains worth of people each day, that in my mind means we ought to build better mass transit between those tw…

> Not that we should cannibalize our working (!) people-moving infrastructure for something worse. > Cannibalize What's wrong with cannibalizing a system that's fundamentally broken?

Subway isn't fundamentally broken; mis-aligned management incentives are...

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#113

Post by tooltalk »

gggvvh wrote: post #64
specialp wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NYC subway system started as 3 organizations; only one of which was city owned. I am normally not for privatization but it is probably the only thing that can save the MTA. The NYT points out a lack of funding but really their funding has not dropped tremendously. Politicians do not have the right mindset to run this. Sure Democrats tend to spend more on infrastructure, but then support obscene union contracts. M…

> MTA police make 130k+ Do you actually know a real person who makes that much, or are you just parroting?

Why is that so difficult to believe?

https://nypost.com/2015/07/16/heres-why-your-subway-fare-kee...

I used to work for a far less offensive agency in NYC, a public library system, and IT managers there make a cool $200K -- though most librarians who are in unions make much less. I wouldn't feel too bad if they were competent folks who deserve the market rates, but many of them didn't really deserve what they were getting.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#114

Post by flexie »

notmtaemployee wrote: post #38

The MTA's problems begin and end at a weak senior management unwilling to standup to Cuomo's frivolous micromanagement and a transit union unwilling to modernize. Politicians should be pushing for serious procurement and labor work rule reforms, otherwise the systemic managerial and operational deficiencies will ensure that the deterioration of service we see now will repeat it self in 5 to 10 years, regardless of ho…

When is the last time America built any impressive infrastructure? I'd say in the 70s.

Most airports, most of the interstate highway network, most subway systems, bridges, tunnels, and dams were built from the 1930s and on to the 1970s. The railroads are even older.

And after that; Silence. It's like you didn't even care to maintain it.

First time I arrived in America, I was taken aback by how old and run down everything was. The only places in Europe I had seen worse roads were in Eastern Europe shortly after the fall of the Wall. In the middle of Manhattan some streets were in a state that in Europe you would only witness in the Balkans or in rural areas. The airports and the link from airports to the city were even worse. The subways didn't even have info tables saying when the next train would arrive. At the same time in Europe, many cities were switching to driver-less trains.

Clearly, the US could afford to expand and maintain the infrastructure. And the US is usually on the forefront of technology. So it's about priority, more than ability. Public infrastructure is just not prioritized that much in the US.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#115

Post by RyanZAG »

vinay427 wrote: post #93
obmelvin wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it is bad, it is an insult to people suffering from true 3rd world problems to make that comparison

I can't agree enough. GP should visit a country where if you're killed in a hit and run by a relative of a politician, it's expected that your death will be a suicide and you will receive no compensation. Or even a country where that's a milder event.

Those are just conspiracy theories spread by opposition politicians. USA has exactly the same with the Clintons being accused of a large list of suspicious suicides.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#116

Post by koyote »

slg wrote: post #77
rayiner wrote: post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

>The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the same route miles, and are similarly old. Yet NYC’s system costs almost twice as much to run. There is one fundamental difference between the two systems and that is that the London Tube stops service overnight while the New York City Subway remains open 24/7/365. Having a nightly maintenance window of several hours in which they can do preventive ma…

London actually now has a night-tube as well.

Although that's only on Friday and Saturday.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#117

Post by twblalock »

rayiner wrote: post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

I think it just boils down to American voters either having lower standards or not being willing to punish politicians for incompetence.

If the subway service in, say, London or Tokyo or Paris became as bad as some of the systems in the US, it would be a major political scandal and the people running the city would fear for their jobs. That doesn't happen in the US, even in places like New York where a majority of commuters use public transit regularly.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#119

Post by zwischenzug »

flexie wrote: post #114
notmtaemployee wrote: post #38

The MTA's problems begin and end at a weak senior management unwilling to standup to Cuomo's frivolous micromanagement and a transit union unwilling to modernize. Politicians should be pushing for serious procurement and labor work rule reforms, otherwise the systemic managerial and operational deficiencies will ensure that the deterioration of service we see now will repeat it self in 5 to 10 years, regardless of ho…

When is the last time America built any impressive infrastructure? I'd say in the 70s. Most airports, most of the interstate highway network, most subway systems, bridges, tunnels, and dams were built from the 1930s and on to the 1970s. The railroads are even older. And after that; Silence. It's like you didn't even care to maintain it. First time I arrived in America, I was taken aback by how old and run down everyt…

This was my experience of the US as well. Not only the state of the roads, but the poor quality of the buildings, and the incredible number of power cuts. It was more reminiscent to me of the third world than the richest country in the world.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#120

Post by zwischenzug »

ZillBurned wrote: post #107
rayiner wrote: post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

That's only one fraction of what our govt tries to control. People think they literally need to run every aspect of our lives. We're finding out what it's like to have the govt run our healthcare and make decisions for us. The govt actually is supposed to be in office to protect us. If all goes well we will have many agencies closed that had no business being govt run. Private is always the best way to hold people ac…

Which is why the privately-run US health insurance system is the envy of the world.
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