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How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

nytimes.com

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Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#51

Post by notmtaemployee »

harryh wrote: post #23

IMHO the real source of a lot of these problems is that the subway system is a city resource that is primarily payed for by city taxes (and fares of course) but it's actually administered by the state government (which the MTA reports into). If it was a city controlled thing it would be a huge huge issue in every single mayoral election. But it gets somewhat drowned out in governor elections.

The subway used to be controlled by the city which lead to politicians keeping the fairs intentionally low to gain popular support. In 1968 the city could no longer afford fund the subway and it was transferred to newly created Metropolitan Commuter Transportation Authority, which was renamed to today's Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

The city retaking control of subway raises the question of who will pay for the operation and capital costs. The MTA derives allot of its funding from tolls through the Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority which generated $1.8 Billion in 2016. It's unlikely the state will give TBTA back as well.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#52

Post by JackFr »

trothamel wrote: post #8
melling wrote: post #4

“17% of the budget is to pay down debt”

Is that bad? The real problem is when you're stuck only paying the interest, and the debt increases. If you were to buy something on your credit card, you're spending most of your money to pay down the debt - but that's not particularly a problem unless you're living above your means. The alternative - to wait until you've accumulated enough cash to build a bus depot - seems kind of a bad idea.

It's not necessarily so bad. If the MTA were a private company, it's optimal capital structure would likely have a substantial portion of debt and some equity.

That being said, it isn't a public enterprise, and its not immediately clear (to me) what the cost of capital for a government enterprise is.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#53

Post by forapurpose »

rayiner wrote: post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

U.S. politicians aren't punished or rewarded for their choices in funding infrastructure. In large part, it's because one party supports, as one of their defining policies, almost any reduction in government spending, revenue, and services. I'm not sure the other party faces significant opposition to cutting infrastructure.

You can see it right now in the current tax bill. There is plenty of discussion about what will happen to whose tax rates, but almost none about what services, including infrastructure, will be cut if revenue is reduced. For one party, revenue reduction is, ipso facto, a good thing.

And to even more strongly contrast the current mindset with reality, there is almost no discussion about what government can do to help its citizens except for security.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#54

Post by jimktrains2 »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #5

> ”... hundreds of mechanic positions have been cut because there is not enough money to pay them — even though the average total compensation for subway managers has grown to nearly $300,000 a year. ” I know this isn’t the primary reason the subway is falling into disrepair, but it’s clearly a symptom of a system that lacks real accountability. There has to be some reasonable push back to compensation (backed ultima…

> I know this isn’t the primary reason the subway is falling into disrepair

Isn't it a primary cause? Not having labour to perform maintenance means that maintenance isn't being done.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#55

Post by AngusH »

rayiner wrote: post #47
blintz wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, mind sharing where you got those numbers? The budget for TfL I see here says a total operational cost of 10.2 billion pounds ( http://content.tfl.gov.uk/transport-for-london-budget-2017-1... )

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-mayors-budget-2017-18.pdf (page 10) versus http://web.mta.info/mta/budget/pdf/MTA%202017%20Adopted%20Bu... (page II-A). I’m just comparing the Underground versus the subway + the Staten Island Railroad.

That's interesting The TFL budget and the mayor's budget don't seem to match precisely, although roughly the same.

I wonder why?

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#56

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

What's most obscene is that no effort is made to compensate for lost trains on partially shutdown express/local lines. The mayor could fix that immediately by just demanding more service on the sections that run rather than forcing everyone into sardine cans. It's pretty clear that MTA is using repairs as an excuse to cut spending on service and are unlikely to ever run it at full capacity.

The system carried more passengers in the 40's. They did it by running trains more often. It's not rocket science.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#57

Post by specialp »

greggman wrote: post #42

I know this isn't a popular idea but any thoughts on why privatizing them is a bad idea? It works in Japan. There are at least 10 train/subway companies in Tokyo alone. JR, Tokyu, Keikyu, Keio, Odakyu, Eidan, Seibu, Tobu, Toei, Keisei and they seem to be best in class by most measures.

The NYC subway system started as 3 organizations; only one of which was city owned. I am normally not for privatization but it is probably the only thing that can save the MTA. The NYT points out a lack of funding but really their funding has not dropped tremendously. Politicians do not have the right mindset to run this. Sure Democrats tend to spend more on infrastructure, but then support obscene union contracts. MTA police make 130k + The LIRR has conductors that clip tickets getting paid 80k base with tons of overtime and benefits. The maintenance workers are (un)lucky if they work more than 3 hrs a day. There is nothing that is going to change with this unless someone goes in and rips it apart as the union is politically powerful and politicians have other interests than running the subway properly.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#58

Post by specialp »

barney54 wrote: post #22
trothamel wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that bad? The real problem is when you're stuck only paying the interest, and the debt increases. If you were to buy something on your credit card, you're spending most of your money to pay down the debt - but that's not particularly a problem unless you're living above your means. The alternative - to wait until you've accumulated enough cash to build a bus depot - seems kind of a bad idea.

One reason it's bad that MTA is only paying interest is that the transportation world is changing. Autonomy, Uber/Lyft, and other technologies may mean that subways systems like the MTA is in a death spiral where fewer riders means less fare revenue and less ability to even meet interest payments. In places like Washington, DC it looks like the death spiral is well underway.

There is absolutely no way any of this will replace the subway ever. All you need to do to see this is come to NYC when transit is on strike. The city is immobilized. There is nowhere in the USA that even approaches the density and mass transit usage as NY metro area. 8.8 million people plus the literal millions that commute to the city cannot possibly get around via surface transit alone.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#59

Post by Afforess »

rayiner wrote: post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

Public services are for the working poor, and politicians don't represent the poorer classes. The wealthy and middle class are larger, more dependable blocs, and politicians support policies that favor these two groups. Few in either of these groups use (or want to use) public services like mass transit. So the problem is pretty basic at its core: poor citizens are one of the largest non-voting blocks[1], and so underserved by politicians. This unequal representation leads to further income inequality[2] and partisanship, which leads to even more gerrymandering, more inadequate representation, and further income inequality...

Meanwhile every individual (politician or voter or working poor) acts in an individually rational way, furthering the problem.

[1]: https://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/voting/SB91-23.pdf

[2]: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2649215

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#60

Post by dogruck »

After reading that article, it’s hard not to have the angry reaction of “wow, those idiots!” Right!?

But, really, we should look inward. For example, where was the New York Times when all of these bad leadership decisions were made? Were they publishing op-eds with clearheaded prognostications of gloom, and alternative solutions?

And, what about the voters who elected these politicians?

Most importantly, where do we go from here?

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