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How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

nytimes.com

61–70 of 319 posts

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#61

I know this isn't a popular idea but any thoughts on why privatizing them is a bad idea? It works in Japan. There are at least 10 train/subway companies in Tokyo alone. JR, Tokyu, Keikyu, Keio, Odakyu, Eidan, Seibu, Tobu, Toei, Keisei and they seem to be best in class by most measures.

The success of privatization is dependent on companies operating within a cultural baseline of decency and accountability.

No such culture exists in the US.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#62

The MTA's problems begin and end at a weak senior management unwilling to standup to Cuomo's frivolous micromanagement and a transit union unwilling to modernize. Politicians should be pushing for serious procurement and labor work rule reforms, otherwise the systemic managerial and operational deficiencies will ensure that the deterioration of service we see now will repeat it self in 5 to 10 years, regardless of ho…

Do people in London and Toronto care enough to pressure their leaders about this? In my experience it's hard to find people in the U.S. who even bother to pay attention to who has oversight when it comes to transportation (and not just transportation, this is true for a lot of local issues).

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#64

I know this isn't a popular idea but any thoughts on why privatizing them is a bad idea? It works in Japan. There are at least 10 train/subway companies in Tokyo alone. JR, Tokyu, Keikyu, Keio, Odakyu, Eidan, Seibu, Tobu, Toei, Keisei and they seem to be best in class by most measures.

The NYC subway system started as 3 organizations; only one of which was city owned. I am normally not for privatization but it is probably the only thing that can save the MTA. The NYT points out a lack of funding but really their funding has not dropped tremendously. Politicians do not have the right mindset to run this. Sure Democrats tend to spend more on infrastructure, but then support obscene union contracts. M…

> MTA police make 130k+

Do you actually know a real person who makes that much, or are you just parroting?

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#65
post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

U.S. politicians aren't punished or rewarded for their choices in funding infrastructure. In large part, it's because one party supports, as one of their defining policies, almost any reduction in government spending, revenue, and services. I'm not sure the other party faces significant opposition to cutting infrastructure. You can see it right now in the current tax bill. There is plenty of discussion about what wil…

It's not just funding transportation though, it's also the oversight of projects. Few people take transportation funding into account when they vote; almost no one seems to take transportation oversight into account.

I think also looking at it simply as a party problem hurts things, because there can be a lot of difference within the party, but people tend to overlook these things (and again, not just in terms of the amount of money that's spent, but also in terms of how it's spent).

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#66

DC's system is pretty bad too. this morning I had to choose between a 50 minute commute via metro for $4, or a 20 minute Uber ride for $10. I'm so so glad I got the Uber.

Sunday is pretty much the worst day of the week to use metro because it has the lowest number of people trying to get places, so the metro is frequently running degraded service to allow for extra maintenance, and there is much less traffic to slow down an Uber.

I would pretty much never consider taking an Uber over taking the metro from 7am-7pm on weekdays because it would invariably be slower and more expensive.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#67
post #35
post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

I honestly don't either. It feels like everything we do costs 10x anywhere else for 10x the time. You would think the cost of building a few light rail lines in a city like Seattle would cost less than a cross-town subway in Japan. In my short life I've never seen America really build anything impressive in transportation - BART, the NYC Subway, the interstate highway system, and most of our airports seem like they w…

I think it has a lot to do with the way government in the US is structured, specifically the focus on local representatives. Because US legislators are beholden to voters in a particular locality, any time there's an infrastructure project which receives state and/or federal funding there is tremendous pressure to make it draw as much money as possible into the local economy. This is the classic "bringing home the bacon" which is expected of pretty much every US politician. This has increasingly become accepted as the norm in the US, despite occasional lip service from politicians. The truth is they are all too happy to accept spending lavishly on local projects, as long as it benefits members of their party.

Other developed countries tend to have parliamentary systems where policy making requires multi-party coalitions. When you need to get three or more parties on board there is less opportunity to get park-barrel spending passed without _someone_ crying foul.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#68
post #21

I don’t understand why American governments are so bad at providing public services. Money often isn’t it. The NY subway has an operating budget of $8 billion for about 1.7 billion riders per year ($4.7 per rider per year). The London Tube has an operating budget of (2.2 billion pounds—$3.5 billion pre-Brexit) for 1.4 billion riders ($2.5 per rider). The systems are in extremely similar cities, are almost exactly the…

Public services are for the working poor, and politicians don't represent the poorer classes. The wealthy and middle class are larger, more dependable blocs, and politicians support policies that favor these two groups. Few in either of these groups use (or want to use) public services like mass transit. So the problem is pretty basic at its core: poor citizens are one of the largest non-voting blocks[1], and so unde…

> Public services are for the working poor

This doesn’t really work in New York City, where most people are exposed to the subway directly or through the crowding of our shitty roads.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#69

The MTA's problems begin and end at a weak senior management unwilling to standup to Cuomo's frivolous micromanagement and a transit union unwilling to modernize. Politicians should be pushing for serious procurement and labor work rule reforms, otherwise the systemic managerial and operational deficiencies will ensure that the deterioration of service we see now will repeat it self in 5 to 10 years, regardless of ho…

Do people in London and Toronto care enough to pressure their leaders about this? In my experience it's hard to find people in the U.S. who even bother to pay attention to who has oversight when it comes to transportation (and not just transportation, this is true for a lot of local issues).

I promise you that New Yorkers care about this deeply.

https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/the-human-cost-of-subway...

Any survey of New Yorkers and government services will tell you how much this matters.

The biggest problem is that the New York government at city and state levels is one of the most corrupt, oligarchic and undemocratic organizations in modern society. I cannot begin to describe how broken it is.

Here's a good example: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/nyregion/new-york-politic...

This leaves us with no levers of power over government decisions. When you take into account that the people who most heavily depend on the subway are also the poorest, we have even less power over the elected and appointed government class.

Re: How Politics and Bad Decisions Starved New York’s Subways

#70
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NYC subway system started as 3 organizations; only one of which was city owned. I am normally not for privatization but it is probably the only thing that can save the MTA. The NYT points out a lack of funding but really their funding has not dropped tremendously. Politicians do not have the right mindset to run this. Sure Democrats tend to spend more on infrastructure, but then support obscene union contracts. M…

> MTA police make 130k+ Do you actually know a real person who makes that much, or are you just parroting?

Article from 2010. Apparently a major chunk comes from overtime. https://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/mta-police-bring-in-bi...
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