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Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

nytimes.com

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Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#81

Post by pulisse »

meowface wrote: post #72

I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's? Is it the threat of torture/execution (and perhaps the same being done to their family)? Heightened fears due to stronger monitoring of employees? Or genuine loyalty / indoctrination?

The disparity in pay (and prestige) between public and private sectors is larger in the US than in most of the rest of the world. The NSA's counterpart agencies in other countries can recruit stronger talent, retain them longer, and offer them more professional pride.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#82

Post by somnolentsam »

azinman2 wrote: post #49
Wonnk13 wrote: post #44

Living in Maryland, I've met several young people who put in a few years at the agency (including TAO) who then left for industry. Millenials don't care about a government pension, especially when you're in a windowless SCIF hacking Perl. The US Government as a whole has a massive talent retention problem. Only the mediocre will stay at NSA / CIA now and we'll probably see more of these leaks / hacks.

There’s a massive pay disparity between public and private, and those currently in power want to keep it that way and eat away even more at gov functions. That combined without a clear rallying call for public service (like the Cold War or collective pride) are a recipe for disaster.

There is a big pay disparity, but the main thing is that engineers and other technical types have gone from having a big say in how problems get solved to being the problem itself. No amount of pay is going to retain people in those circumstances, except possibly those you don't want to retain.

As far as money is concerned, NSA is way overfunded - it just spends money on the wrong things and wastes lots of resources due to inefficiency.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#83

Post by mnm1 »

Great. I hope this continues. The more the NSA has problems, the better off the rest of the rest of us are. It's unlikely the institution is even lawful--its practices certainly aren't. At the very least, it proves that the government cannot itself keep secrets, so it really needs to shut up about trying to put backdoors into software when it can't protect its own most vital software assets from leaking. I guarantee if Android or iOS had such government mandated backdoors, they keys would leak in under a year. I simply don't see a reason for the NSA to exist, but as long as it exists, I hope its mission of spying on Americans under the disguise of being an international spy agency is thwarted in any way. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if these leaks were intentional. With the current administration's relationship to Russia, this would hardly be surprising. Instead of a 'shadow war' with Russia, a 'shadow alliance,' at this point is just as likely. Regardless, the NSA shouldn't be stockpiling such software, but once again, since there are absolutely no repercussions for them doing so, they are allowed to do so leading to disastrous consequences.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#84

Post by EthanHeilman »

meowface wrote: post #72

I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's? Is it the threat of torture/execution (and perhaps the same being done to their family)? Heightened fears due to stronger monitoring of employees? Or genuine loyalty / indoctrination?

>I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's?

1. Leaks have happened in Russia, for example the KGB archives that Mitrokhin stole [0].

2. Somewhere above 845,000 people have TOP SECRET clearances in the US intelligence community[1]. I can't find size of the Russia and Chinese intelligence community but I would guess it is an order of magnitude smaller.

3. Privacy is not viewed with the same level of importance in Russia or China. The US and European intelligence communities are tasked with a mission which directly contradicts the core culture values of those societies. Additionally the US and EU countries have large non-state controlled media outlets allowing someone to blow the whistle.

4. Because of the Pentagon papers all leakers/whistleblowers have an example of intelligence leaks being beneficial and good for the country. Are there any similar role models in Russia or China that might motivate a whistleblower?

5. When the US captures intelligence from Russia or China the US generally does not leak it to make Russia or China look bad. Russia, and before that the Soviet Union, have been using espionage to make the US look bad for have 60 years.

[0]: https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/kgb-documents-now-public-mit...

[1]: http://freebeacon.com/national-security/chinas-spy-network-u...

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#85

Post by bsder »

Wonnk13 wrote: post #44

Living in Maryland, I've met several young people who put in a few years at the agency (including TAO) who then left for industry. Millenials don't care about a government pension, especially when you're in a windowless SCIF hacking Perl. The US Government as a whole has a massive talent retention problem. Only the mediocre will stay at NSA / CIA now and we'll probably see more of these leaks / hacks.

> The US Government as a whole has a massive talent retention problem. Only the mediocre will stay at NSA / CIA now and we'll probably see more of these leaks / hacks.

The CIA were never noted for being the sharpest of government agencies ...

However, the NSA generally had a very good reputation. The big problem with the NSA is who wants to work in a place where you can't actually talk about what you do?

The primary underlying problem is that sharing and security are fundamentally at odds. If the NSA can't even get it right, what chance does everybody else have?

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#87

Post by boomboomsubban »

meowface wrote: post #72

I wonder why there don't seem to be leaks like these at other superpowers' intelligence/security organizations, like China's and Russia's? Is it the threat of torture/execution (and perhaps the same being done to their family)? Heightened fears due to stronger monitoring of employees? Or genuine loyalty / indoctrination?

If malware with ties to Russia was suddenly used in an attack, we would just blame the FSB. Something like an anonymous poster claiming to be responsible would be seen as obvious disinformation.

And it isn't like these leaks are a frequent event here, the equation group is really the only one.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#88

Post by convolvatron »

wolf550e wrote: post #75
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very frankly believe one of the more patriotic things an American with the ability can do is emulate Snowden, i.e. infiltrate and expose the NSA’s domestic surveillance programs.

But it's not patriotic to give NSA tools to the Russians, to hurt the ability of the NSA to spy on Russia.

its ultimately in the best interests of all of us to understand how little we can count on the systems we use today to keep information private.

how likely do you think it is that the russians or the chinese or anyone really has developed similar exploits?

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#89

Post by chiefalchemist »

0xbear wrote: post #74
chiefalchemist wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um. You're telling me the party that had 7+ years to plan for the repeal & replace of ACA but completely failed at that has able leadership? Those who campaigned for the ticket was the cream of the GOP crop. They're not competent. How is Trump punching his way out of a wet paper bag a sign of significance? I'm being snarky. I'm curious as to how anyone can see the rest of the GOP'ers that tried to get the nomination…

Hillary wasn't worthy of her nomination, and yet here we are. Jeb Bush attempted the same thing, but failed very early on. You're failing to recognize that GOP establishment hates Trump just as much as Democratic establishment does. They would rather fail themselves than let him win, because they feel it in their guts that if he wins, he won't keep them around for long. He's an anti-establishment candidate. That's th…

Actually. I'm well aware - and have been preaching since he won - that both parties want Trump to fail. Imagine a non-politician coming in and actually getting things done. Are you kidding me? That would not make the rest of W.DC look good.

So at this point, regardless of what you think about Trump, it's 4 more years of "let them eat cake" for we the people. That's guaranteed at this point.

Re: Security Breach and Spilled Secrets Have Shaken the N.S.A.

#90

Post by retailbuyout »

Spooky23 wrote: post #80
Wonnk13 wrote: post #44

Living in Maryland, I've met several young people who put in a few years at the agency (including TAO) who then left for industry. Millenials don't care about a government pension, especially when you're in a windowless SCIF hacking Perl. The US Government as a whole has a massive talent retention problem. Only the mediocre will stay at NSA / CIA now and we'll probably see more of these leaks / hacks.

Federal pay sucks by design. If you want to work for .gov, you want state/local government. The Feds want to contract out for anything they can. So you work for Lockheed or whatever and get most of the attributes of government employment.

> So you work for Lockheed or whatever and get most of the attributes of government employment.

Right, and the profits flow to a couple people who essentially own the contract. It’s essentially modern day aristocracy, except the contracts are more valuable to farm out to peasants than land is.

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