But viewed in that light, maybe they're not so defensible. While a small minority of graduate students may come from the lowest income backgrounds, on average they're highly educated and privileged. So in essence, it's a tax break for among the most advantaged people. Why is that "fair?"
The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education
41–50 of 99 posts
Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. Personally, I'd like to see a balanced approach: shift some of the money to increase those laughable stipends into something livable, and put the rest where it belongs: on admin costs. The shell game universities are playing is part of the problem. Hopefully, if this change makes it into the final bill, Universities do the right thing and don't stick it to their Grad Students.
Can you elaborate more on what is going on at universities? Are you saying that grant money comes in for research, but gets funneled back to the university through tuition?
Layered atop that default rule are a long list of exceptions, which are generally categorized as (1) exemptions and (2) deductions.
If you attend a Ph.D program where the advertised tuition is $30k per year, and you get a tuition waiver (or w'ever it's called), the default tax rule says that you still earned income because you received a benefit. The nominal value of that benefit is $30k, therefore the student would need to pay taxes on that $30k.
Apparently there's an exemption or deduction that excepts tuition waivers from the default rule, meaning such tuition waivers wouldn't be considered taxable income.
As part of the GOP plan to pay for corporate income tax rate cuts, they must discard many kinds of exemptions and deductions to replace lost revenue from the corporate rate cuts.
To those who say that this is a shell game[1], note that if it was just a shell game then the change wouldn't have been made. In other words, there's an expectation that discarding this exclusion will generate more revenue. That revenue would directly come from students and/or universities, one way or another.
Universities could lower tuition, but one reason for the disparity between nominal tuition and effective tuition is that foreign students disproportionately pay the nominal tuition. Reduce nominal tuition and you reduce the foreign subsidy for domestic students. Not only does the effective price of a graduate education go up, but you're likely to see even more foreign students. Depending on which country you hold citizenship, that's either good for your career prospects or bad for your career prospects.
[1] All the news reports make a point of saying that the university "pays" the tuition waiver. It's a distinction without a difference. The student still derives a benefit, and however the university cares to balance its books (e.g. with double-entry accounting) is entirely irrelevant unless there's incredibly esoteric technical requirement to the particular earned income exception. Such esoteric technical requirements are rare since the 1986 reform as the text of modern rules emphasize underlying economic benefits and not accounting practices, as focusing on the latter create more opportunities for gaming the tax code.
Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you provide any specific details on how the new suggested tax plan will raise the bar? It seems as though we should be encouraging Graduate and PhD students. It seems as though it would force additional students into taking out loans if their tuition is not waived?
If the only thing standing in the way of a student continuing on Graduate or PhD studies is grant money, they shouldn't have trouble finding a job. In that case, if the university wants to attract those students from the private sector, they'll have to find a way to increase a student's stipend to cover these expenses. At top-tier schools where tuition is the highest, their endowment is likely large enough to support…
> 4) Colleges notice that they can raise price because students don't price shop
When has this ever been true. I applied to school many schools back in the day and it usually came down to finance and then reputation. Whichever school granted you the most tuition and living expenses, and wasn't steaming pile of shit is where 99% of my working class peers and I attended.
Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the only thing standing in the way of a student continuing on Graduate or PhD studies is grant money, they shouldn't have trouble finding a job. In that case, if the university wants to attract those students from the private sector, they'll have to find a way to increase a student's stipend to cover these expenses. At top-tier schools where tuition is the highest, their endowment is likely large enough to support…
> 3) Students now have access to loans to go to any school they want > 4) Colleges notice that they can raise price because students don't price shop When has this ever been true. I applied to school many schools back in the day and it usually came down to finance and then reputation. Whichever school granted you the most tuition and living expenses, and wasn't steaming pile of shit is where 99% of my working class p…
Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education
#45Under the logic of the tax code, tuition waivers should obviously be taxable. The University is basically paying for graduate student labor with a vastly below-minimum wage stipend, along with a very valuable free education. "In kind" benefits (such as the use of an apartment) provided by an employer are generally taxable. That doesn't mean tuition waivers should be taxed. It just means you have to be intellectually…
Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education
#46I don't understand this. During my PhD my "scholarship" was just basically the university choosing not to charge me money. It's not as though I sat down and set on fire $20k worth of paper every year. So now they have to pay tax on to the amount they would have otherwise charged me? Isn't that kind of a hypothetical concept? Like, can't they say, "Oh the tuition for the civil engineering PhD program is now zero"? Vir…
Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education
#47Under the logic of the tax code, tuition waivers should obviously be taxable. The University is basically paying for graduate student labor with a vastly below-minimum wage stipend, along with a very valuable free education. "In kind" benefits (such as the use of an apartment) provided by an employer are generally taxable. That doesn't mean tuition waivers should be taxed. It just means you have to be intellectually…
At the same time, repealing the tax break hurts those least privileged the most. Why is that making things more "fair"?
Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
At the same time, repealing the tax break hurts those least privileged the most. Why is that making things more "fair"?
Graduate students, as a class, are not the "least privileged." Most are from families that are pretty educated and well-off to begin with.
Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education
#49I think this is a good thing. Graduate education is grossly overpriced, because institutions know the government will help pickup the tab.
I don't follow your line of thought. How is the government picking up the tab? The government isn't making any payment back to the institution.
Essentially, there is far less of a check and balance on the price of the good/service. Whenever you have true cost hidden or put way down the road it tends to significantly increase the total cost. Also, there was a hard limit on the cost of education previously because it used to be hard to get a loan for school. People had to actually save money for it, get a scholarship, or pay as they went along. There was a natural limit based on the available money people had available and were willing and able to use to purchase education.
Less than a decade ago (2008/2009) the average in-state tuition was $6,585 for a public school. I graduated in 2006 and this number seems accurate. My undergrad tuition in 2006 was something like $5,500-$6,000. Based on data from the College Board, the inflation factor for 2008 is ~9.5 (against the reference value in 1978 of 1, when the numbers begin). Which means the average cost of tuition for in-state public schools was $693. The minimum wage in 1978 was $2.65. It would thus take 262 hours to be able to earn enough to pay that tuition. That averages out to a mere 5 hours a week! And that's the worst case scenario (making minimum wage). Using the 2008 numbers, the minimum wage was $6.55, so it would take 3.83 times longer to pay tuition (1005 hours)! And that was nearly a decade ago - it's gotten far, far worse since then. Viewed another way, if the cost of college was subject to the normal inflation that the rest of the economy average, that $693 would be a mere $2,737 for 2008.
Re: The GOP Tax Plan Will Destroy Graduate Education
#50So the plan is... >> Under the new GOP tax plan, however, those tuition waivers would be taxed as regular income... Sensationalist headlines aside... Why is this being targeted in the new tax plan? Usually I can find something with a quote from someone that explains.